Here's an opportunity for all the Leavers

I like Cheddar best.....ah now there's another story. ?

Divergence from EU regulations will lead to a huge increase in beaurocracy.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/feb/07/brexit-regulation-britain-eu-agencies-sajid-javid

We are now at the point where the Brexiteer must get real if we are to have the best result we can from leaving Brexit. So far we have only lost - losing our seat at the table and our power to deal as part of a large trading group.

We do not want to hear about the top of the mountain stuff they pretend is possible any more. It now has to be real grown-up stuff where you don't look towards a rampant liar as your father figure. (I do worry about the childhoods' of those who voted for Johnson)

This is where you, the people who brought this upon us, take responsibility, question the politicians you voted for and understand that Little England - which we will surely become, cannot have everything it's own way just because it once had an empire or fought a war.

You are not victims of the "bad remainers". There is now no such thing. Blaming others for having a different view to yours has not convinced them and if you try this with countries or trading blocks we will simply become more isolated and a laughing stock.

You are not victims of a punishing EU. You are adults who wanted something (although most of us are still struggling to understand what) which many other countries will not want to give you without a decent two-way deal being struck. You cannot have it all your own way and you cannot keep blaming others.

It's time to stop acting like spoilt children with your name-calling, etc., and act like an adult who one day may be walked through the ruins of this country just as the Germans were walked through the concentration camps if you allow your politicians to get this wrong. The right moves rest with the people holding those politicians to account.

It's time we understood that we're all Leavers now

You simply cannot expect people to agree with that Oopsminty You presumably decided to leave. The best you can do is to make it work and try and carry those who didn't agree with you. Leavers are a grown-ups not children and you must stop throwing these cliches about. You need to get real.

We are not all "leavers"; that is over and can never change. We were either wanting to leave or not wanting to leave and that will not change. What those who have brought us to this point now have to do is show us, by holding their politicians to account, that it was worth and that means being honest about what can be achieved. The different world the Brexiteers in parliament wanted will not be good for everyone and you need to own that.

Saying "we are all leavers now" has no meaning and seems to infer some sharing of blame or shame. Work at being an adult in an adult world and making the best of it for heaven's sake and stop these silly sound bites. Get on with it; make it a success and you might be forgiven. That is the best you can hope for. You wanted your views to be taken into account now the work starts for you in following this up and holding your politicians to account.

Never assume!

But I'm not so malicious as to blame those who voted to Leave

It will all work out

And I'm being the adult here

And we've left

So the whole Leave /Remain thing is null and void

It's not a soundbite to point out the fact that we're Leavers

We've gone

I certainly acknowledge that we are leaving the EU but I still think it was the wrong decision taken by a very small majority in a badly conducted referendum. I just hope that leave voters will now act responsibly and challenge the government. The leave vote per se does not guarantee that Brexit will be a success. Surely you can see that, Oopsminty? I just wish some posters would refrain from writing meaningless phrases such as ”We are all leavers now/ we won/we now all need to pull together etc.” It's no good hiding behind immature statements like that. They will get us nowhere but they do tell us something about the posters' choice of arguments.

I am not blaming them Oopsminty but neither am I one of them. I may admit one day that they were right or I may insist they visit the parts of the country decimated by the decision I still believe was undemocratically and possibly illegally forced on us. What I cannot do is change my uniform and try and escape to South America pretending I am something I am not.

The leave voters want something so badly they ignored the lies and lack of accountability. Now they must hold the politicians to account and stop the lies.

*The EU is not going back on what it said about a Canadian style agreement. It did not say anything of the sort, never has and it wasn't in the deal. Johnson signed up to the political declaration which said just the opposite. I imagine Johnson is someone who could gas-light a partner in just the same way to remove the blame from himself.

*There is nothing new about Spain having a veto over Gibraltar It was always the case and the members will always stand by a member state. We chose to be a 'third country'. Standing in the playground shouting "they're being mean" is not the way to run a country and campaigning is over.

*There is a need to admit to the fact that our economy will change and not in a good way for many. This can be ameliorated but may mean the sort of taxes Brexiteers did not vote for.

*We are unlikely to be able to roll over all the trade deals we had through the EU and new deals are unlikely to offset the losses. True Brexiteers have said this is not what leaving was about but they need to admit it is likely to happen and work out how to protect those who are affected.

That is being an adult Oopsaminty, not telling others what their beliefs must be. That is 1984, Nazism, our own Civil War and all the dictatorships you can remember rolled into one.

Leavers must now stand up, be counted and stop the catchphrases and empty rhetoric. There is much to do and it needs doing fast.

Which EU law shall we get rid of now Brexit is done? Four calls to James O'Brien

www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/which-eu-law-can-we-now-change-four-brexit-calls/

Why do these leavers keep phoning in only to demonstrate how clueless they are? Surely they should know by now that James O'Brien will run rings round them?

He is a bit horrid to them but I do feel his pain...

We've even had bendy bananas on this thread.. Surely everyone knows by now that a bored Brussels Correspondent made that up? What was his name now...er.. Johnsomething wasn't it?

GGMK3

'It's time to stop acting like spoilt children with your name-calling, etc., and act like an adult who one day may be walked through the ruins of this country just as the Germans were walked through the concentration camps if you allow your politicians to get this wrong. The right moves rest with the people holding those politicians to account.'
-
' I still believe was undemocratically and possibly illegally forced on us'
---
'The leave voters want something so badly they ignored the lies and lack of accountability. Now they must hold the politicians to account and stop the lies.'
--
'That is being an adult Oopsaminty, not telling others what their beliefs must be. That is 1984, Nazism, our own Civil War and all the dictatorships you can remember rolled into one.'
--

4 years of the same old, same old rhetoric.

Name calling, belief democracy only works when it is in the eye of the beholder and the offensive raising of Nazi Germany.

You lose the arguement / debate by continuing with a vendetta against those who exercised ' their ' right to vote in a democratic process in opposition to yourself if all you do is parrot, / mirror image those you chastise.

GGMK3 The best you can do is to make it work and try and carry those who didn't agree with you

I voted for what I thought (and still think) is best for our country, in line with the majority of those who voted. I fully intend to try making it work, and anyone with an ounce of common sense will do exactly the same. BUT don't expect me to "carry" those who bleat on and on with the same rhetoric and are constantly criticising and undermining everything that is great about the UK.

We were a great country as one of the most powerful and influential members of the European Union - the world's largest and most effective trading block.

But because 17m out of the 67m UK residents were fooled into voting leave in the fraudulent referendum of 2016 wd have tbrown that away.

As I said, bleating on and on and on ..........

That's the price you pay for voting for something that half the country didn't want, Opal. You get to hear them moaning a lot...

They've been moaning a lot for nearly four bloody years, time to suck it up and move on, eh?

Not half Maizie. 17m out of 67m is a lot less than half.

The gloating leavers may not yet understand what damage they have done. But they will in time.

Could you please list exactly which features you feel are being undermined, Opal? The features that make the UK so great? Then those who voted to remain can list the features that they would say made the UK great and are being undermined, and we can all work toward maintaining all the good things and transforming all the bad ones.

Carrying doubterswith you to help you towards a goal is not quite the same as "carrying" useless people on your back. You have to use a lot of tact and subtlety and persuade everyone that it was the right move, by demonstrating practical progress, if possible. That takes time.

Just telling them triumphantly to suck up a decision that they are highly sceptical about won't, in fact, persuade them that it will succeed, it is more likely to make them think that with such brutal people implementing it, there is going to be a lot of collateral damage.

The gloating leavers should be reminded that the overwhelming polling evidence for the last three years showed a Remain majority and this was confirmed by the results of the EU parliament election and the GE in both of which most voters supported parties advocating Revoke or a People's Vote.

It is only because we live in a sham democracy that a party voted in by a minority end up with a big majority of MPs and drag us out of the EU against the will of the people.

Good grief, just took a peek at this thread and sure enough, the same repetitive whingeing by the same people.

As Opal said, just bleating on and on and on and on and on.....

Carrying doubterswith you to help you towards a goal is not quite the same as "carrying" useless people on your back. You have to use a lot of tact and subtlety and persuade everyone that it was the right move

Respectfully Elegran, I don't have to carry anyone, and don't intend to, especially the moaning minnies on GN. Tact and subtlety were never a strong point of mine, I'd much rather say it as it is, quite frankly. If you think that makes me "brutal", so be it. I just think it's realistic.
Everyone I know, whether a "leaver" or a "remainer", is heartily sick of the whingers who refuse to accept that we have now left the EU and are still constantly moaning about the UK. Yes they should suck it up and move on, it's happening at last, democracy has won (despite Varian banging that constant bloody drum) and the vast majority of people in this country want to make a success of it.

We have to accept that we have left the EU but we do not have to accept that democracy has won. Democracy has lost. We have all lost.

Gloating leavers do not speak for everyone. They cannot even speak for themselves when they are asked what they have gained. The only thing that matters to them is saying " we won, suck it up" like a, playground bully.

This "everyone" they talk about who thinks like a gloating leaver may mean everyone who reads The Daily Express but not everyone who cares about our country and worries aboutt the harm done to the lives of their children and grandchildren.

No wonder there is such despair.

That doesn't answer my question, Opal. Which features do you think are being undermined? You can leave out the sovereignty bit and the democracy bit for the moment. They have had ample airing.

I would like to know which practical and measurable features of ordinary life are being undermined by remainers pointing out the lost advantages of trading as part of a larger European community, and sharing common goals with them. No ranting and spite, just clear and calm statements.

Note that I made a distinction between "carrying someone" and "carrying them WITH you" People can agree to be swept along in the crowd on the enthusiasm of others and join them in achieving their goal, in spite of having doubts about the concept, and become part of a general movement. That is being carried with them - and if the promises of the leavers are to be fulfilled, the work of all will be necessary..

Carrying lazy colleagues who contribute nothing is a different thing.

Many of those who voted to remain are in key positions for maximising UK trading and legislation, and many others (including a lot of Gransnet remainers) are in less exalted positions, but doing their best for the economy and the social milieu. They are not going to suddenly down tools AGAINST the country's prosperity and have to be carried. They need to be carried with you. You don't achieve that by snarling at each other.

Like Chestnut just had a peek on here ( and once is enough)
Just the usual moaning indeed.

Actually Elegran you are right in saying you ‘don’t achieve that by snarling at each other’ but wrong to assume that you do achieve it by being reasonable/ all sweetness and light on here either, because whatever is said, the angry posters who are carrying on ‘carrying on’ don’t want either response.
‘Show us your reasons’ they howl ‘ Give us answers!’ Well,
No, it’s over, we have left the EU with no going back and they will have to wait and see for themselves what transpires.
No answer to any question will be good enough for them, because at the heart of it, all they really want is to vent their
Anger/ disappointment/ discontent.
Am guessing these kind of threads will continue into next year and then dwindle.
I won’t be reading them though.