Johnson's 15k freebie

The most worrying pair in his new cabinet are Suella Braverman and John Whittingdale. Bye by Human Rights Act and BBC.

And the new SpAd, Andrew Sabinsky.

I wasn't ashamed of Corbyn. I think he is a decent man.

Apart from wondering why relatively wealthy people like Johnson can't pay for his own holiday, it is also important to know who is granting favours to our PM because the next question would be why?

So how would Labour have ruined democracy, MOnica?

IMO there had been plenty of indications of how it would be during the May government, such as 'managing' parliamentary business to reduce scrutiny; I seem to remember MPs being given barely 24 hours to see the Withdrawal Agreement before it was debated. And wasn't there an awful lot of hoo haa over those impact assessments that had been done in depth, and then didn't exist, and then suddenly did again, only MPs were only allowed to read them in a locked room by prior appointment?

Of course, Cummings had already been ruled in contempt of parliament by refusing to give evidence to a Select Committee..

OTOH, it's all just opinion about Labour. What indications were there that they were likely to 'ruin democracy'?

Democracy would be ruined whoever was in power. Obviously it is only the party in power that can do it, but, it would be happeneing if Labour were in power as well.

The thing about Johnson is that he jumps up and down and waves his knickers in the air proud of his misdemeanours. he doesn't pretend to be virtuous.

If you want some specifics for Johnson. There is the deportation of criminals (I fully accept that) before the Windrush report is out and where many of them have lived in this country since childhood and have wives and children in the UK.

I know some would say good riddance, but in that case let us export all criminals regardless of citizenship to somewhere else. We have plenty of home grown criminals we would be better without.

There is the worrying way Johnson has filled his cabinet with yes men, although there are already rumbles on the back benches about that. There is how pusillanimous Dominc Raab has been over getting Mrs Sackoolas(?) back from the USA, or even letting her travel when he is so willing to send British people there to stand trial. Boris Johnson condemned Nazarian Zhagari-Ratcliffe to years of imprisonment through his stupid uninformed big mouth.

Then there is the £350 million a week the NHS was going to get when we came out of Europe. Well we have been out 3 weeks now. Where is that extra £billion?

Well only one of them is actually ruining democracy now M0nica and I have yet to see a single condemnation of his actions just more diatribe about Corbyn and a lot of assertions that nothing would have been different.

I denigrate Johnson as much as Corbyn, but Boris wears his many nasty failings like a medal. Corbyn hides his.

What you do not seem to understand *Trisher is that I find both party leaders and both parties equally dreadful .

Try waking up and realising the disaster that is unfolding for democracy. I am only too aware of it and very aware that the disaster would have been just as great which ever party got in. Corbyn/Johnson. I abhor and distrust both equally.

M0nica, I think Miliband was voted in because of his ideas. The people choosing him respected him but you are right, he could not bring the general public with him. He always explained the complexity of situations so was not good for soundbites.
He also didn’t seem to be a bombastic liar which is obviously what is required to succeed today.
Such a pity. I liked him a lot.

That Johnson can ride roughshod over rules as London mayor and get away with it has set a precedent for him to just go on and do the same stuff as the P.M.
He just has no morals.
I find him quite repulsive - though I understand from what people say he’s an interesting dinner guest!

Ha ha Vegansrock - where I used to work 10 years ago our limit was fiver!
Everything else was declared and went into a Christmas raffle. Anything that wouldn’t last was given to a local charity.

M0nica could you perhaps confine your comments to what is actually happening now? Or is the reality of what has resulted from this election too much for you to cope with. We have a PM who lies and allows his ministers to lie to Parliament, who does not consider it necessary for him to account for freebies and who is manipulated by a very dodgy adviser. And all you can do is continue to denigrate the Labour party and ex-leaders. Try waking up and realising the disaster that is unfolding for democracy.

Well my opinion of Corbyn is on a par with my opinion of Johnson. He is a man who was consistently, over 400 times been disloyal to his own party but has been party to hard liners in his party driving out anyone who did not toe the party line.

Like Jonson he is surrounded by privately educated Oxbridge graduates, many of them quite comfortably off, to put it mildly. He refuses the face up to the fact that the last election was his to win but he threw it away by, among other things, refusing to deal with the anti-semitism in his party.

I won't go one. I might get libellous. Boris Jonson is a gallumphing fool who sins loudly and in public. We all know he is a liar and he does not deny it. Corbyn is the kind of man who sins behind closed doors then denies it. Frankly Corbyn gives me the shudders.

I cannot work out why the Labour party in recent years has voted into leadership for prolonged periods time men who are so flawed, first Blair and now Corbyn and in between time men who are decent honest men but poor leaders, primarily Gordon Brown, for whom I have immense respect and Ed Milliband.

How can you justify that claim Monica?

I know people are very cynical about politicians but BJ has plumbed new depths of cheating and dishonesty. He is in a league of his own.

I cannot imagine any other party leader, or his predessecor Theresa May behaving the way he does.

I doubt it would have been any different with a different party in power, we would have been lied to just as egregiously.

Strange isn't it how a thread about a PM who accepts a £15k holiday and then lies about who actually paid for it is turned into a criticism of the opposition. If it is Ok for an MP to lie about any perks he receives then we might as well chuck out any record of the perks and who gave them. But BJ and this government are consistently lying about things and nothing it seems can be done.

You cannot vote for what is not there. Neither of the main parties had a shred of morality. Their leaders were both men to be ashamed of and both their manifestos were based on fantasy promises that were unfulfillable.

I disagree. I, and I hope many, if not most voters, did not shy away from the moral dimension.

Sadly, in the last election there were no parties with a shred of morality to hide their total immorality.

It was simply a question of deciding which immorality you opted for.

What we saw at the last election was that 44% of the electorate is not interested in morality.

"I'm sure it's all above board".
How naive can a grown woman be after seeing his complete lack of morality?
(Am I the only one who remembers several threads about how inappropriate it is for classroom teachers to accept Christmas gifts?)

The problem is of course that you can’t neutralise a gift can you? And is easy to hide what it’s ‘bought’. BJ has a freebie from Anon and owes him one. BJ is friends with MG. Anons dd needs an internship or a word putting in at somewhere MG has contacts. MG has a word and Anon is paid back. BJ now ‘owes’ MG but there is nothing in the Register to demonstrate the this.. And so on. All gifts, holidays, trips in private jets, etc should not be allowed.

I think the idea of the register is to neutralise any 'buying privilege' side to gifts. Every knows you gave them and everyone will be looking out for the 'cost' of the 'free' gift.

Frankly, if government employees cannot receive gifts then neither should MPs or Ministers.

I know DC and BJ are masters of the art of dead cattery, but really a Cabinet Reshuffle to take away attention from a £15k bung is a bit much ?

Now come come Maizie you’re far too bright and articulate a poster to descend to criticisms of BJ’s sartorial style ( no matter how richly deserved).

No probs, suziewoozie

Just alerting people to the fact that there is a link.

And if they follow it they can feast their eyes on the full glory of our beloved Leader's holiday wear ????

I recall when people used to scoff at men with knotted hankies on their heads and rolled up trouser bottoms paddling at Blackpool. I think Johnson's choice hits the same sort of note! I bet, if he wasn't wearing wellies to complement his clothes, he was wearing sandals with black ankle socks...

Sorry Maizie missed that link as distracted by craftys contribution. ( and tbf it was the DM)

Didn't I post a link to that story earlier on this morning?

I don't think that anyone, craftyone, is bothered about where he took his holiday or the fact that it was an expensive one on an 'exclusive' Caribbean island. What we're bothered about is the fact that he didn't pay for it himself (though, poor love, it would have made a bit of a hole in that £141,000 pa that he struggles to make ends meet with). And now, the fact that he is lying about who did pay for it.

We are also pointing out that government employees are bound by their Code of Conduct not to accept gifts of hospitality if they could be seen as in any way compromising their judgements and impartiality.

I would also contend that it is wrong for any, repeat, any MP to accept holidays paid for by a third person.

So please stop with the stupid 'You're all jealous' claim...