Sensible Discussion on Labour Leadership hopefuls MK 2

But the future of the LP is not just about the here and now of this election but the ramifications if either RLB or LN win.

Maizied

' Just how crucial would their votes be to the leadership candidates'
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A fair question but if it is about percentages the votes 'possibly ' lost would be higher for Long Bailey and Nandy who have signed the ' Labour Campaign for Trans Rights ' 12 point plan calling for 'Expulsions ' of Labour Members who they deem as being transphobic in my opinion.

Starmer by not signing up to the ' full ' 12 point plan may well have shifted a few undecided into his camp.

I still think that we're dealing with a very small but extraordinarily vocal minority. Statistically, what percentage of the population is trans? Does anyone know?

They absolutely need to be considered but not pandered to.

Just how crucial would their votes be to the leadership candidates?

I dont think they can win really. I didnt vote for Laura Pidcock in the election because she wasnt brave enough, but when she did voice some concerns after the election it was a pile on and she was denounced as transphobic.

Ah Galaxy I misunderstood what you meant about women in the Labour Party not speaking out. I thought you meant not speaking out in their Labour Party roles eg Yvette Cooper. In fact, was your point really that some woman ( regardless of their party political views) are being punished and harassed for speaking out?

I agree but women have lost their jobs, been threatened, etc. I am not open about this in my workplace so it would be hypocritical of me to not have some sympathy.

Why do you have some sympathy Galaxy? It’s too important to go along with. The only response as a member ( men and women) should be to speak out followed by #ExpelMe. Now is the time to speak out, send a clear message that this nonsense has to stop and empower KS to offer a more sensible way forward. Bykerping silent, Labour members, and especially women are complicit

I am not on any social media such as Twitter or Facebook , only Gransnet but I can imagine what a bone of contention this has caused.

I bet when Long Bailey and Nandy signed up to it they thought it would be good for showing an inclusive nature but it has backfired on them spectacularly in the minds of some.

I need to catch up on the Andrew Marr interview but it's getting a very mixed response on social media.
He was right to ask those questions, will Lauta Pidcock be expelled for example?
To be honest I think the time has gone for being silent on this topic but I do have some sympathy for women in the Labour Party who dont dare speak out.

Andrew Marr interviewed Rebecca Long Bailey this morning and I thought the question he asked re Long Bailey signing the Labour Campaign for Trans Rights ' 12 point plan calling for 'Expulsions ' of Labour Members who they deem as being transphobic was a fair one.

I thought the points he raised and his challenge as to Who, What, Where, When and How Labour Members would/could be ' Expelled ' in accordance to the Campaign wording did not garner a satisfactory response by Long Bailey.

The ' feminists' in the Labour Party have been very quiet over the Labour Campaign for Trans Rights, 12 point plan which is tantamount to ' NO Platforming ' them.

And I so agree that posting misinformation and refusing to acknowledge it is VERY rude and unpleasant. ?

High horses coming out of the stables now. Well there you go.

I so agree.
I have little to contribute to this debate and follow it with detached interest as it has been very informative.
Suddenly has become rude and unpleasant.
A great shame.

And I would have thought a sensible discussion might accept the correcting of false information. Oh wait a minute, it was false information coming from the right wing - silly me. That’s all part of the Johnson/Trump playbook of lies and fake news. As you were. ?

Criticising aspects of gendered male behaviour is not misandry because it’s the behaviour that is criticised not tge sex of the person so behaving. If it’s a man as opposed to a woman that is exhibiting this behaviour then so be it.

For goodness sake can at least this thread stop with the crap, one upmanship/one upwomanship and what I am thinking of possible mysandry being on display.

The clue is in the title ' sensible discussion'.

Urm you were rightly criticised over posting ill informed rubbish- stop playing the victim. And yes I agree GG she did start an argument in an empty room by posting this rubbish. Silly wasn’t she when all she had to do was check her ‘information’. Thanks for your support ?

True GG13!
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Enjoy your lunch Grandad1943!
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Pogs, I did place a couple of links in this thread or the last one in regard to what the "Red Tops" have printed in regard to the threatened resignations.

I been out to for an hour of so, only to return to find the same forum member still ranting and espousing her very ovious deep misandry. ?

This was for a considerable time on the now-defunct previous thread a genuinely sensible discussion on the Labour leadership contest. However, one forum member seems to be determined it should not continue in that vein with her ranting and personal abuse of other on this thread.

A great pity really, but we are off to lunch at one of our daughters now, so will not be reading or posting on this again today. ?

As for Keir Starmer.

I think the controversy over what he said at the Husting in Glasgow is another overblown situation to be honest.

I have called Starmer a continuum of a ' flip - flopper' in the Labour Party over the years since the EU Referendum and I have heard him and the other candidates say they would happily work together.

He is probably now seeing the end goal and it is down to 3 so maybe he is starting to look like a Leader rather than what is happening now all the candidates are being polite and standing as one, it will not work as being insipid will not sort the wheat from the chaff.

Starmer is correct to say he will not commit to having Long Bailey and Lisa Nandy in his Cabinet should he become Leader. They should have done the same. It is not saying he will not ask them he is simply not committing to it happening.

If Long Bailey is not the Leader then the Shadow Cabinet may well look very different to what we see now. There is again the unspoken point that the Labour Party under Corbyn has a vast media machine behind it Unions/Momentum/Novara Media et al and were Nandy or Starmer Leader I wonder if that will remain the same or the wind will be taken out their sails.

I honestly think having watched and listened to interviews and hustings there is little to choose between the candidates and I think they are ALL far left but I remain of the opinion it obviously will come down to the ' numbers' and whether or not the Unions/Momentum can keep their ' tight grip ' over the Labour Party in which case ' OUR BECKY ' will win.

For Starmer or Nandy to win they will have to hope the Labour Membership believe they are not as far left as Long Bailey but watching and listening to them I think you would have to be pretty misguided not to see through that.

Cunco Sun 16-Feb-20 09:42:09
'It is amazing. This thread calls for sensible discussion. I try to add clarification and it gets ignored. Maybe, c'est la vie or just internet 'discussion'. ☹️'
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I have not ignored you but I made points you raised previously on the thread relating to your post.

The fact remains there is a ' charge ' against Labour Party MP's in that they say they will not serve under Long Bailey. When I asked the question ' who' the ' charge ' is aimed at the answer was not available. This is not given factual evidence and whilst I am ' NOT ' saying there is any truth to the matter it is not being backed up with anything other than ' he said, she said, anonymous person said'.

The ' red tops' are being blamed but that is not the case as far as I see it either.

I also think there is another factor which is hardly spoken about and that is ' dirty tactics '. Who can prove this is not for example a story to garner votes for Rebecca Long Bailey?

There is something rarely spoken about but there is an extensive media ' machine ' behind the Corbyn Labour Party who wants Long Bailey to become Leader such as the Unions/Momentum/Novara Media/Corbyns Inner Circle and I wonder how far they ' might' go to ensure ' OUR BECKY ' becomes Leader.

Time will tell but it is again a story that may or may not hold sway but I do like facts. By the end of my post I may have it and I have wasted my time, who knows.

Urmstongran some folks could start an argument in an empty room ???

I feel as though I’ve been filleted!

It’s no wonder that some GN members ‘read/lurk’ rather than post.
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