Sensible Discussion on Labour Leadership hopefuls MK 2

David's, in regard to your post @09:17 today, it has to be remembered that the MPs who are now threatening to resign were elected to their parliamentary seats on the back of policies that have been put forward by the Labour Party and the broader movement for some considerable time. If they did not feel they could support those policies the "honourable" thing to have carried out would have been to not stand as a Labour Party MP at the last election.

I can understand that their are those in the Parliamentary Party who would wish to see policy changes within any new leadership and within that Long-Bailey is standing as the candidate of continuity with the current policies. However, it has always been a strong tradition within the whole Labour movement that if there are any policies or actions that you do not agree with, you remain within the movement and campaign for change, gaining support by your weight of argument along the way.

These MPs are in many cases "bleeting" to grassroots activists in the trade union movement who fight uphill battles every day at shop floor level on behalf of the members they work alongside. Do these MPs think that such affiliate members will in any way support persons given a privileged position of service, and yet, wishing to "throw in the towel" within a few weeks of a General Election?

These MPs should get off their backsides and campaign all around the movement to gain support for the policies and leadership they wish to see brought forward.

Nothing but the above will ever gain any widespread support within the Labour movement.

MaizieD Sat 15-Feb-20 09:00:42

' That's OK, POGS, I just won't read your posts if you can't summon up the manners to make them more accessible to everyone.'
-

I am sure other posters are sick and tired of threads being derailed into personal spats that have bugger all to do with the thread so I will leave this matter behind as of now to allow others to post interested in discussing the Labour Leadership.

Labour MPs have been elected by their Labour supporting constituents and then represent all of their constituents. I know far less than some on this thread about the processes but it does seem to me that these MPs have been treated with contempt for some time by those leading the Labour Party; however, they must be doing something right to be returned by their constituencies.

If RLB continues down the same route as JC et al does that mean those MPs and their constituents will continue to be held in contempt by the leaders of the LP?
That could result in yet another disastrous showing in a GE.

In general, voters in a GE have the last say. They have just demonstrated what they think quite decisively.

That would be a pity POGS

there are fewer and fewer posters contributing to the political threads for obvious reasons so it could all just end up as a one-sided conversation.

Please stay POGS

I think that both LN and R L-B are too low on the general public radar and lacking in experience in speaking before hostile audiences to make a success of the job. Either of them would risk going the same way as Jo Swinson, which would be a pity. We don't want any more ruining of the careers of able young female politicians.

I don't think this applies to Emily Thornberry so I'll be sorry if she really is knocked off the ballot.

Grandad, it is the “affiliate” members that need to be more realistic, their best chance of changing the lot of working people is to get a Labour Government into Westminster. Don’t they ever learn, Corbyn has been a disaster as leader, more of the same is not going to improve anything.

Burying their head in the sand is not going to change anything, of course many don’t represent anyone, they just pay the membership to get a vote

So Emily Thornberry is officially out.

She tried her damnedest to promote herself and I know I will be accused of being horrible but I have always found her arrogant and smug but it must smart a little today to be not be seen as a contender.

I would think those who backed her will shift their vote to Keir Starmer or am I wide off the mark?

Anniebach, Callistemon

Thank you very much but I meant leaving behind any personal spat to concentrate on the discussion. Cheers.

I agree POGS I too think KS will hoover up some extra support now.

POGS I always found ET arrogant but thought that she must have either had advice or taken a long hard look at herself because I thought she had improved in her presentation recently.
I did wonder too if she no longer felt that Corbyn and his advisers were no longer a threat to anyone who dissented, so she was more free to speak her mind.

I am sorry about Emily Thornberry too, but I think Caroline Flint scuppered her some time ago,with her accusations of a kind of snobbery.

I am not sure that many M.P.s are voted for as individuals though, I think most voters vote for the party whose policies they most agree with.

As regards the MPs who are threatening to leave if Rebecca Long Bailey is elected leader, I think that it would be as well to let them go, but I would expect them to then agree to a by election , not assume that their constituents agree with them.

I will probably vote for Keir Starmer as leader, but not yet decided between Dawn Butler or Richard Burgon for deputy.

I dont believe theres any chance of any labour "opposition" doing what they should and actually opposing instead of abstaining on votes where the toties losing would have made a massive difference in peoples lives.While I haven't voted labour for a very long time I am sad to see the party on the downward spiral it seems determined to continue.Nandy is a tory in disguise ,her views are very far right ,Starmer ,,well I can never quite get my head around a "labour peer" its so far removed from core values its off the page.I do wish the grass roots luck though ,they need it.

Starmer is a knight, not a peer otherwise he would be in the H of L.

I think it was for outstanding contribution to public life in his previous career. He prefers not to use it but of course the MSM will continue to do so.

paddyann

' Nandy is a tory in disguise ,her views are very far right'
---

If that is true why do you suppose Lisa Nandy has the backing from the likes of the National Mine Workers Union, The GMB Union (General, Municipal, Boilermakers) which has more than 631,000 members.,?

Davidhs, in regard to your post @09:17 today, it has to be remembered that these MPs were elected to their Parliamentary positions on the back of policies that the Labour Party and broader Labour movement have been putting forward for some considerable time. If these MPs felt they could not support those policies then the "honourable" thing to have carried out would have not to stood as Labour Party MPs at the last General Election.

I can understand that there are those that would wish to see a change in policies and emphasis within the new leadership and Long-Bailey is standing as the continuity candidate to present policies. However, it has always been strong tradition across the whole Labour movement that should any member feel opposed any policy or action, then they stay within the Movement and campaign for change.

These MPs are in many cases "bleeting" to grassroots shop-floor trade union activists who on a daily basis fight uphill battles on behalf of the members they work alongside. Do these Labour MPs really think that such persons will give any respect or credibility to people who are given a privileged position of service and then wish or threaten to "throw in the towel" within a few weeks of a General Election?

What these MPs need to do is get off their backsides and campaign all around the Labour movement in the cause of their beliefs gaining support by their weight of their argument along the way. No other action will gain respect, and the attempted blackmail tactics they have resorted to may well enhance Long-Baileys chances of becoming Labour Leader.

POGS, in regard to your post @10:21 today, several Red Top newspapers have carried the reports of Labour MPs resigning should Long-Bailey be elected as Labour leader. However, no names have been mentioned, but obviously, the press has been briefed by someone, and many within the movement will have names come to mind based on passed troubles caused in the Parliamentary party.

Below are links to some of the reports:-

www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1240326/labour-leadership-rebecca-long-bailey-party-mps-quit-jeremy-corbyn-keir-starmer

www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/news/109756/dozens-labour-mps-could-quit-party-if-rebecca

www.scotsman.com/news/politics/unite-boss-says-clear-out-now-to-labour-mps-threatening-to-quit-if-rebecca-long-bailey-becomes-leader-1-5080863

No surprise really that Emily Thornberry was knocked out. The surprise was that she got this far.

Starmer was knighted for his stint as Director of Public Prosecutions. He has impeccable working class origins and is well known for his work as a barrister on human rights issues.

It is curious to see reactions to him, both on here and on other MSM. On the one hand he is castigated for appearing to be 'posh' and, presumably, out of touch with Labour voters, but surely his success, unaided by family wealth, private education etc. should speak in contradiction of the constantly repeated accusation that the LP doesn't support aspiration? (As an aside to that, if the LP doesn't support aspiration then it is denying its fine history of supporting workers education and aspirations)

Or is the LP conflicted in what it believes? Can you be successful and authentic?

Grandad

I read your links. Besides a comment from Neil Coyle and an ' anonymous' MP did I miss anybody else mentioned?

I am not disagreeing with what has been mooted but I hold no sway with ' anonymous' voices and Neil Coyle is hardly a fully fledged Corbyn/Momentum fan.

If it is the case there are MP's who are saying they will not work with Long Bailey then I see the equivalent in the Conservative Party with those MP's who said they would not work with Boris Johnson.

Some see MP's who say they will not work with their Party Leader / resign from the party as ' principled ', some see them as ' traitors ' and there is usually a hypocrisy attached to who and which party is deemed as either ' principled/traitor '. I am thinking of examples such as Ian Austin, Dominic Grieve et al.

I am not saying this is not a credible story, sounds feasible, but it does seem pretty lame as to the credentials behind the story and the numbers who have supposedly said they will resign or refuse to work with Long Bailey.

Anyone who becomes leader of the Labour Party will be criticised on here and in the MSM. they will find something, anything, to throw at the leader.
In Keir Starmer's case it is his background, and previous job.
Rebecca Long bailey has been pilloried for living in a nice house.
If Lisa Nandy looks like succeeding, there will be some mud found to fling at her.

But there's nothing wrong with Starmer's background or previous job! This is what is so crazy about it all.

Especially in the UK with its current government... ☹

I would say that Farage is very far right
Nandy is nothing like Farage!!

Nowhere near.

I agree MaizieD, there is nothing wrong with it, but the MSM will try to make out that there is, simply because he is looking a likely candidate for the leadership.

Laughable really, isn't it? On another thread a poster was stating that all voters made 'well considered decisions' on their choices and now we have worries about candidates being judged on their 'titles', their houses and heaven knows what other irrelevancies..

Why would Starmer be criticised for his background?

In fact, he does look what one might term posh but he isn't.
He does look statesmanlike.