The British PM has a history of racism and bigotry

OK, I don't believe earlier assertions that a person's personality is 80% down to genetics.

Now we might be closer to a proper debate. Is personality a genetic predisposition or purely a result of environmental factors? Again we might go to the latest research which shows considerable evidence for the existence of some kind of genetic predisposition in perosnality disorders including those of psychopathy , although again, that environmental factor plays a part - for a pop psych point of view take a look at James Fallon on this. He is a proper academic but he also has an interesting take on psychopathy and its genetics.

But there are those who believe personality is a result of environment too. Mischels for example. You are entitled to your beliefs.

aprilrose I honestly think I'd find it more satisfying discussing the price of baked beans with somebody.

Oxford doesn't promote cultural Marxism either. You really haven't a clue what you're talking about. In fact, cultural Marxism is a myth promoted by extreme right sites and accepted by the dimwits who follow such sites.

His mother is an artist (apparently a good one), who has Parkinson's and is quite an active campaigner. She has made no secret of the fact that she has been hospitalised in the past with mental health illness.

Johnson has two brothers, but the second one keeps out of the spotlights.

OK, I don't believe earlier assertions that a person's personality is 80% down to genetics.

I didn't try particulatly hard to find a study of scizophrenia with a particularly low concordance rate for monozygotic twins. I just did a quick google.

Quite clearly, I am no scientist or geneticist. I am an interested person. I don't think we can assume BJ has some statesman like qualities in his genes. I find his father to be a snob and trading on his name and his wealth. I don't know anything about his mother. His brother and sister seem more genuine people.

The low concordance rate of 33% in monozygotic twins demonstrates that illness vulnerability is not solely indicated by genetic factors

Well done! You have found a study with the lowest rates recorded. Good for you.

However, most studies demonstrate a concordance rate of between 35 % and 58% in Monozygtic twins. That doesnt sound high until you compare it to Dyzogotic twins of course, where the concordance is around 9% - 20% and the same applies to siblings. For those needing help the higher the concordance the more likely a strong genetic factor. Milder forms of schizophrenia tend toward lower concordance rates. That just suggests the increased importance of genes because when genes are loaded for more severe symptoms in a parent with schizophrenia ( or for example where both parents suffer from the condition rather than one) the incidence of concordance increases significantly.

Of course even MZ twins will experience environment differently and I never discounted the importance of that 20% nurture /environment factor did I? ( much as you would like to keep saying otherwise) 20% is a lot and can make a difference. I never said otherwise.

There is a whole raft of studies which would support the ablve. Moldin for example ( 1998) reviewd studies from the 1920's through to the 1980's and found an average concordance rate of 46% for schizophrenia amongst MZ twins even when children were raised in different environments /families. This compares to a rate of 14% in DZ twins.

Bon point MD.

Of course, there's always the possibility that Johnson has a mutant gene or two, too.

This from a twitter thread on eugenics. Not quite what we're discussing here, but related.

What about removing deleterious characteristics? This was a prominent aim of previous eugenic enterprises. Recent work has shown many cases of severe intellectual disability are due to what are called de novo genetic mutations.

I assume that these mutations don't only cause intellectual disability? Perhaps a it's a 'lying through my teeth' mutation..

Oh, the tweeter's credentials:

Dave Curtis
@davecurtis314

I work on human genetics and am honorary professor at the UCL Genetics Institute. I’m the editor-in chief of a journal which used to be called Annals of Eugenics. I just wanted to say that we now know from the latest research that eugenics simply would not work.

You mentioned Boris Johnson's education.

Boris didnt begin or end his education at Eton, any more than any of his friends ( and half of the British political establishment ) did.

I was thinking more of Oxford actually and his family background

The low concordance rate of 33% in monozygotic twins demonstrates that illness vulnerability is not solely indicated by genetic factors

One final point: estimates that come out of this type of study are dependent on the environment the twins are living in. So results would likely differ if the same study were carried out in very different societies, or at different time points throughout history. Though this study benefits from using a large population-wide registry, study members were all Danish residents. The findings may not apply to different populations, with different ethnic and cultural makeups.

The study will add to the large body of literature exploring the role of hereditary and environmental risk factors for schizophrenia. However, it certainly doesn't mean we fully understand the causes of the condition, including the impact of environment on this condition

the Mail Online reports

You mentioned Boris Johnson's education.

Go on then! Explain how Eton promotes cultural Marxism

Where did I mention Eton?

Really? Have you tried Specsavers?

Another one in the last bastion of cant argue wont argue so make sure you insult your opponant instead. The above is a direct example of why I wont have the debate you suggest with you.

You wouldnt be able to have the debate without ad hominem attacks rather than dealing with the issue.

Goodness me! I'm sure I've read your post elsewhere aprilrose. Did you copy and paste it?

Go on then! Explain how Eton promotes cultural Marxism.

I don't suppose it was something you picked up from some right-wing site during one of your Google searches.

Ah , the discredited study so beloved by the Daily Mail.

Not sure where your source is - obviously you read the daily mail. I said where mine was from - the NHS.

But of course any source that does not support your view has to be bogus or discredited? The last refuge of the social conscience and liberal (non) progressive mind I fear.

Wear that label if it fits.

Really? Have you tried Specsavers?

If you want a serious discussion about cultural Marxism, I'm up for it. grin

ROFL . If that were not such a joke I would take you up on it. But I have observed on this forum that anytime certain people get challenged they tend to run to GN and get their opponents banned. ROFL. Have I ever heard such a funny joke in my life? Never.

I wonder, where did Johnson get his 'lying through your teeth every time you open your mouth' gene from?

Probably from his great grandfather. There arent many politicians or journalists who do not have that capacity. The best come from families where both occupations are apparent - as in BJ's case.

But since nearly all tell lies, the point becomes, does it matter?

From both parents and his ancestors, like all of us.

Ali Kemal was Johnson's great grandfather, so the chances are that Johnson has an eighth of his genes, along with genes from all his other great grandparents and ancestors.

Do we have a wannabe Cummings or Sabaski on GN?

but clearly he got something passed down from his progenitors, including Ataturk..

I don't think you read suziewoozie's post about this too closely, aprilrose

I quote:

Johnson's Turkish antecedent..

He rather seems to be not Mustafa Kemal Ataturk but Ali Kemal. There is additionally the rather delicious irony that all of the former’s children were adopted.

But, whatever..

Johnson isn't in any shape or form a 'revolutionary statesman'. The revolutionary is the guy who's pulling his strings.. D. Cummings. Not sure where his genes came from...

If you want a serious discussion about cultural Marxism, I'm up for it.

Oh dear aprilrose. So what academic books would you recommend?

I suspect I might know a little more about Gramsci and the right-wing fantasy trope which is cultural Marxism than you appear to do.

aprilrose You went to university in 1975? Really?

you seem to be a little confused about Gramsci. What is your source of all this?

Really? Am I confused or is it you who is confused? I would say you have no idea at all where Gramsci is concerned. As for where I get my information - a lifetime of reading academic books.