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Does anyone believe BJ has any intention of negotiating a Deal with EU?

(265 Posts)
jura2 Sun 23-Feb-20 15:30:30

... or just making it so impossible that we will end up with No Deal at last minute- with him ringing hands saying 'oh we tried so hard, but the EU wouldn't play ball- so we had no choice...'

It was the ERG's aim from the start- and the will of Trump and Putin too.

suziewoozie Wed 26-Feb-20 16:52:30

Poor child - what a genetic inheritance

jura2 Wed 26-Feb-20 16:45:09

Checked- a son, 4 years old. So probably no grand-children then.

jura2 Wed 26-Feb-20 16:41:06

Has Cummings got children and grand-children?

jura2 Wed 26-Feb-20 16:39:19

Urm - hmmm yes, and then?

oh I know the answer- wait and see, and we hold allllllllllllllllll the cards, yes?

suziewoozie Wed 26-Feb-20 16:32:34

Nicely played * Urm* re your article from the Telegraph. It’s by Robbie Gibb - hardly a neutral source. Your posts really should come with a facts warning.

Urmstongran Wed 26-Feb-20 15:18:13

It boils down to the EU proposes whatever deal it sees fit and the UK is sovereign to refuse, that's it.

growstuff Wed 26-Feb-20 14:48:06

Even Andrea Leadsom smiled at "Cummings and goings". grin

growstuff Wed 26-Feb-20 14:44:08

And I disagree with total Urmstongran.

Undermining institutions which provide checks and balances are the bedrock of British democracy. Without a written constitution, it's how the country has become what it is with pragmatic solutions.

You really should read a book about early 1930s Germany.

"Full steam ahead" is schoolboy language. It really is not the only way to "get Brexit done". In fact, it's highly unlikely to produce any satisfactory conclusion.

Urmstongran Wed 26-Feb-20 14:33:37

Cummings and goings - brilliant.. Not quite so funny after hearing the joke at least a few times in the last couple of weeks jura2.
?

Why the gloom and doom still about these negotiations? Children & grandchildren, eggs and chickens not to be had?

All those negotiators have families too!

Best settle down and bring some popcorn.

jura2 Wed 26-Feb-20 13:51:51

I wonder why so many in the Civil Service and also experienced negotiators are back peddling? Do you think it is just ideology, or what their knowledge and experience tell them.

Break a few eggs - or break all the eggs, which are now all in one Cummings basket? Will your eggs get broken, those of your children and grandchildren. Break all the eggs and there will be no chicks to replace them ...

He promised what can't be done- and he has signed up to a Withdrawal Agreement on certain terms.

Sajid has the measure of him. Never thought I'd respect him as much as I do today

www.facebook.com/Channel4News/videos/230837668079002/

Cummings and goings - brilliant.

Urmstongran Wed 26-Feb-20 13:19:40

I disagree with him here growstuff:

“Institutions which serve as ‘checks and balances’ against executive power are systematically undermined, because they might object to things he might want to do. It seems that we are dealing with a Prime Minister who is interested in power for power’s sake.”

The only way to get Brexit done is full steam ahead. Too many (Remain) mandarins in the BBC and the Civil Service want to maintain the status quo.

Boris needs to break a few eggs to make the Brexit omelette. This is groundbreaking stuff he is dealing with. There are too many naysayers in the background. The power Boris needs is so that he can deliver what he promised in the Tory manifesto!

jura2 Wed 26-Feb-20 13:10:11

Ask Prof Duncan from Liverpool Uni- or Jason Hunter, and many others. They know.

jura2 Wed 26-Feb-20 13:09:17

Same question, please Urm?

Iain Duncan Smith has recently said that Johnson and his Brexit team urgently need to find and appoint the best and most experienced lawyers and internation negotiators- as there is trouble ahead.

And he is right. However, it will be very hard to find those people- because their knowledge and experience mean that they are all Remainers- not by ideology, necessarily- but because they understand how weak the UK's position now is- and that we will never be able to get a 'cake and eat it à la Johnson deal'- and will never have the strong and influential position we had before. Just plain fact. No experience expert would agree to put themselves up to fail.

growstuff Wed 26-Feb-20 12:40:17

Which bits of Phil Syrpis' blog are you challenging Urmstongran?

growstuff Wed 26-Feb-20 12:36:47

What if he did vote to remain in the EU?

He's a professor of EU Law, so I would imagine that he knows how things work. hmm He's guaranteed a job for life because so much needs doing by people who know what they're talking about.

MaizieD Wed 26-Feb-20 12:29:53

Punt away as much as you like, Ug. He's a well educated and intelligent man so he probably did.

Which does not invalidate his analysis of Johnson based on the man's actions since being elected PM.

Urmstongran Wed 26-Feb-20 12:15:31

I’d take a punt that that blogger, Phil Syrpis (Professor of EU Law at the University of Bristol Law School) voted Remain.
?

His viewpoint in that case is no great surprise.

MaizieD Wed 26-Feb-20 11:50:16

This is a really interesting (and chilling) blog post about Johnson. What does he really want to achieve?

An extract, but worth reading all of it.

In the aftermath of the general election, many commentators predicted that Johnson would soften his Brexit stance and seek to develop a ‘deep and special’ partnership with the EU. A range of factors seemed to lend credence to such a view. With Brexit done, and the referendum mandate (at least arguably) exhausted, would he not choose the least economically disruptive path, ensuring that he would have the ability to deliver on his pre-election spending promises? Does he not have to appeal to ‘red wall’ voters, and the new tranche of Conservative MPs who represent them in Parliament? Wasn’t he, and I’m not quite sure what people are reading into this one, rather more liberal than expected during his time as London mayor?

It now seems clear that he has no intention of softening his Brexit stance. His actions as Prime Minister can best be understood through the lens – again – of power.

He has sought, in a range of ways, to minimise Parliamentary scrutiny of his actions. He has plans for the judiciary, both in terms of its composition, and its ability to hold the government to account via judicial review. He attacks the BBC and the civil service. He treats the devolved governments with barely disguised contempt. Institutions which serve as ‘checks and balances’ against executive power are systematically undermined, because they might object to things he might want to do. It seems that we are dealing with a Prime Minister who is interested in power for power’s sake.

blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2020/02/25/power-for-powers-sake-johnsons-profoundly-alarming-premiership/

The blogger, Phil Syrpis is Professor of EU Law at the University of Bristol Law School.

I do suspect that much of this is Cummings, rather than Johnson, but he is the enabler.

MaizieD Wed 26-Feb-20 11:43:37

They are writing what their readers want to hear. They have jobs to hang on to.

Nezumi65 Wed 26-Feb-20 11:15:58

I do not believe the Torygraph hacks are that dim, so they must be choosing to misrepresent what the EU is saying.

jura2 Wed 26-Feb-20 10:50:33

... and still is by some, right here.

And also the 'oh we can just walk away and trade on WTO' !!!

varian Wed 26-Feb-20 10:46:46

One of the biggest lies was "They need us more than we need them" yet unbelievably this was parroted over and over again.

jura2 Wed 26-Feb-20 10:44:42

As someone I trust just said elsewhere ''So you walk away from a deal to covering 45% - 48% of your trade, no access for financial services and tariffs on all exports to the EU and if we believe in Boris, they will set WTO tariffs on imports to zero... and you expect they will soften.....

In such circumstances why would any other WTO member be in a hurry to negotiate a trade deal with the UK while they can have zero tariffs on their exports to the UK, while imposing tariffs on UK imports. So long as they UK and the EU can not come to an agreement, they can enjoy the free ride. ''

common sense FGS.

jura2 Wed 26-Feb-20 10:41:16

Exactly, the UK has left, signing a Withdrawal agreement with terms which now Johnson and his team refuse to honour.
It has left- but all the work is now to be done. If the UK does not honour what it has signed up to- all will lose, all will be damaged- but the UK 10000 (and some more 0s) more than the EU who will stick together, support each other- and sign deals which the rest of the world which the (very small) UK won't be able to on its own.

They won't be selling wine to us, and it will hurt- but they won't be buying anything from us ...but from each other and outside.

How anyone can not see that is beyond me, truly.

growstuff Wed 26-Feb-20 10:34:45

The EU certainly has "clocked" that the UK has left. It's a load of nonsense to claim otherwise. Maybe Telegraph journalists should try reading foreign media.

The UK is behaving like a spoilt child, which has been given plenty of chances, but now wants to have all the perks without sticking to its side of the bargain.