Leave voter faces ruin without EU workers

This has been a problem for a long time and not just in the agricultural industry, it happens in warehouse work and other sectors.
It affects a minority, often involving foreign gangmasters, but it does need to be clamped down on..

suzie I'm not claiming it's all absolutely fine. I know that gangmasters exploit their workers. The point I'm making is that it's likely to get worse. British workers really aren't going to queue up to pick fruit, wages won't increase. Farmers won't be able to recruit from the EU through FoM, so will be even more reliant on gangmaster-organised labour. It's possible that people will come from Turkey, Ukraine, Viet Nam or China or further afield.

The gangmasters won't even be subject to EU laws, however imperfect they are. The British authorities have shown that the are toothless in enforcing minimum standards and I honestly can't see that changing. Agri-business will want to continue making a profit and people will still want affordable food. The poor can eat cr*ppy American imported food, which will do wonders for the nation's health .

I posted it this morning <sigh> .

Which article?

I'm not sure that the enclosures were done with quite those motives, jura. The early ones were way back in the 16th C (enclosures for sheep; the wool trade was highly profitable and a key part of the economy). I don't think that plans for the displaced peasantry even entered the landowners' heads. Many of the 18th C enclosures were done before the Industrial Revolution really got going. Once again, I don't think that the destinations of the peasantry were a particular concern of the landowners. What it did do, though, was to make the peasants more dependent on regular agricultural work for their sustenance, having lost rights of common which allowed them grazing for their animals and free fuel and animal bedding..

But this is OT really..

Did you see the date on the article grow ?

But * grow* tgey font all stick to the law.I gave you a link to a reputable source - you’ve given anecdote - where’s the link to evidence that shows it’s all absolutely or even mainly fine?

Exactly, Maizie. Long before the UK joined the Common Market, workers from places such as Greece were being imported to do menial work via agencies. They were treated appallingly. I met one of them (now in her 80s) who is tell here and she told me what was going on.

At least the EU has laws in place to mitigate the abuse.

MaizieD "This is the cost of our cheap food".

True, andthat message should be on big banners and posters displayed all over .

Not only is cheap labour exploited but so also are animals, all for food that is too cheap.

Of course some people can afford only cheap food. The solution to that problem is basic living wage for everyone regardless of education level or age.

And down with those many rich people who flaunt their superior wealth!

I can only believe what I read suzie, just as you do. One of my sisters lives in Norfolk and her partner is a farmer. I know a little about the agencies/gangmasters and I also know that there are farmers who pay reasonable wages because they want their crops picked.

There aren't many farmers these days who do their own picking and harvesting. Most bring in contract workers of some sort. There are British-based operators who act as contractors and they have to stick to the law and code of practice. The problem is that there is a chronic shortage of workers, so they sometimes have to use foreign contractors, who do treat the workers badly.

They recruit in places in Eastern Europe and only pay their workers "local" (ie Bulgarian, Rumanian) wages.

It's the 'posted workers' thing, isn't it. Haven't the EU altered the rules on posted workers now?

Of course, now that we've left the EU this practice can continue unchecked as the posted workers regulations no longer apply to us.

Chomsky ''“That’s the standard technique of privatization: defund, make sure things don’t work, people get angry, you hand it over to private capital.”''

it is so wickedly and brilliantly simple.

Get rid of those pesky labourer and peasants - and their unions. Automate factories and agriculture- very profitable indeed for the few and s*d the many.

It started a long time ago, with th Enclosure Acts. Get rid of the peasant serfs and their smelly tied villages- make them starving and homeless- so they have to go to the new towns to work for a pittance ... and when the time comes- we will get rid of them altogether- and automate.

The social consequences will be massive and beyond anything we can imagine.

suzie That's why I asked about agencies. Currently, it's the workers who work for agencies (gangmasters) who are the most exploited. They recruit in places in Eastern Europe and only pay their workers "local" (ie Bulgarian, Rumanian) wages. They are the employers, so can enforce their own conditions. I read somewhere that these agencies will be allowed to continue. If that's true, low wages will continue and there will be no decrease in immigration - it could even get worse.

growstuff ''So much for the theory of wages being forced upwards, as British people flock to pick fruit! Fruit will be picked by foreigners, from inside and outside the EU - or left to rot.''

and perhaps this is what is intended - because what the Tories want is big business for their friends- no staff- fruit and veg rot- shortages-public is angry- solution at the ready ...

automation - BIG MONEY - huge social consequences, but they don't care.

Same method- same for the NHS and privatisation.

I've read your link, suzie. This is the cost of our cheap food.

And growstuff.
slave labour but people keep talking about it as if it is the norm.

MaizieD good post

Call and grow I’m amazed you can do confidently state that.

grow because some farms are fine, doesn’t mean there isn’t a serious problem. Do you believe the article or is all made up to fit an out of date stereotype?

I was agreeing with you.

Callistemon I meant the idea that fruit picking is slave labour is an outdated stereotype.

Call when you’ve read the article, it will be interesting to see where you stand on this issue. As for the state of the caravans - well I’d like the evidence.

I've read interviews of people coming back year after year for a decade or more. The seriously wouldn't do that, if conditions were so bad.

More importantly, it's pie in the sky to think that British people are going to step in to do the work.

We no longer have armies of housewives, willing to spend their summer fruit picking. Most women with children already have jobs. Students' holidays don't last long enough for the whole season. Unemployed steel workers from the North East aren't going to move to Kent to pick fruit, especially as there is better paid work available on wind farm installations, etc.

One way or another, foreigners will still be picking the UK's fruit. The immigration proposals are already beginning to fall apart. There will need to be exemptions for the NHS, some teachers, care and domestic staff, au pairs, seasonal hotel staff, entry level scientists and researchers, ete etc etc.

A lot of farmers voted leave with their hearts without regard for the downside.

From what I recall of interviews/articles about Leaver farmers at the time, it was EU regulations that they objected to. And they were absolutely promised that the EU subsidy would be replaced by the UK government. There is video of Johnson making that promise while campaigning. When are people going to realise what a casually compulsive effing liar he is and stop hero worshipping him?

Most farmers depend on that money for their livelihood and will go bust without it. It is in the interests of the UK to keep these farmers active, we need the food they produce, and they maintain the countryside. Agri-business has no interest in the latter.

The few farmers I know voted Remain and were in despair at the idiocy of their fellows...

And, of course, some workers do not look after the accommodation so the farmer has the expense of repairing, renovating and replacing furnishings every season.