Leave voter faces ruin without EU workers

From the article in FWI

Maizie

Working hours in agriculture are normally long at harvest time 16 hours 7 days a week is fairly normal, there are plenty who work from 7 am til midnight and sometimes beyond, nothing to do with migrants
For pickers and packers 8 to 12 hours 6 days a week would be normal with Saturday’s free - no deliveries on Sunday. Hours are not regulated it’s up to the individual, most want the extra hours

Safety, if a HSE inspector visited any home, factory, or farm he would produce a list of safety concerns.

The line on wages is blurred when accommodation and transport is deducted, my guess is that there are a lot of UK workers that end up with less after housing and transport is paid. Accommodation should be a reasonable standard, mobile homes being the norm, one critism was a electric heater close to bedding - how is the employer supposed to control that.

Slave Labour, the only case I remember reported is a group of travelers using vulnerable men as slaves, nothing to do with GLAA

I don’t believe that pay is the same as Bulgarian levels although there are always some disgruntled workers who think they should get more, many do farm work for a while then move on to other work. There are a lot of picking gangs working in this area, they always seem well organized and seem to work 8-10 Hours, they get checked by the GLAA regularly but I having seen any prosecutions in recent years.

The article is very much a self justification for the GLAA and no doubt a bid for more funding. I say to them prosecute as many of the law breakers as possible, it would make their job easier if there was a proper official scheme where only registered legal workers could work. This happens in Australia, it’s illegal to employ anyone without tax documentation, resident or migrant, they police it too.

After my parents and I moved from the outskirts of London to Suffolk, I used to pick potatoes and fruit during the school holidays. Even as a young, fit person, it was really back breaking work and very poorly paid - but as a teenager I was just pleased to get some pocket money. Nearly all this work was done by young people and women (who, like my Mum and her friend, mostly did it when they felt like it for "pin money" at a time when a family could get by with just one earner). I don't think many people these days would want to do this very tiring and poorly paid work.

I don't think you answered either of my quetions, David! Never mind, you didn't have to, but it would have been interesting to have some dialogue...

We can’t produce enough food ourselves can we ? Hence the chlorinated chicken etc problem

If the government wants food produced in the UK there will be labour made available, the alternative is for it to be produced overseas, for fresh food that means Europe.

Who knows what Cummings is thinking, with the level of acrimony that is developing with the EU anything could happen. The sensible option is to keep most production in the UK, so migrants will still be coming for to work, not just in food production there are many other industries that rely on them.

Rouge gangmasters as they apply in farming.

Most gangmasters are foreign nationals and come and go, as such difficult to prosecute if they are caught but they have to be registered with the GLA. Farmers are very aware that not using a registered gangmaster is likely to result in a fine of £10,000 plus.
Having said that if 200 pickers are hired for 3 days it is impossible to check the identity of every worker on the field every day. Also some will have accommodation and transport provided, some will arrive by car and have their own housing. Inevitably some illegals do borrow an ID from a friend or family member.

It’s not a perfect system but at least agriculture is regulated whereas all other industries do exactly what they want, which is why you don’t hear about them, nobody checks.

The video is worth watching:

www.euronews.com/2019/06/12/uk-suffers-from-shortage-of-seasonal-fruit-pickers-this-summer#spotim-launcher-widget

While the UK was in the EU, most workers were here legally, if they had any sense at all. There was no reason for them to be here illegally, unless they came from outside the EU. The situation is likely to change after the UK has left the EU.

I live in a semi-rural community and we have loads of seasonal workers. Some of them are travellers from Eastern Europe and the dynamics of traveller communities can be exploitative. However, there are others who are here independently.

I'm not defending exploitation, but I'd seriously like to know how people think the situation will improve after the UK has properly left the EU. The government's idea that there are 8 million economically inactive people, who will jump at the chance to pick fruit, if the wages are increased, is absolute nonsense. Somebody has to pick the fruit. If they can't come legally, somebody will find a loophole and they'll come illegally and be even more exploited than they are now because they won't have any recourse to the law.

Meanwhile, the government has its headlines that it's being tough on immigration.

They recruit in places in Eastern Europe and only pay their workers "local" (ie Bulgarian, Rumanian) wages.

David, did you read the report that suzie linked to? I read the article, but not the full report. The article distinctly gave the impression that it was more than just a few rogue gangmasters. Of course, one would need to read the actual report to get an idea of the scale of the problem.

Otherwise, what evidence do you have that most of our food is picked and processed by legal workers?

“The practice of employing the North Korean workers in Bulgaria and Romania terminated in 2017.”

Perhaps that’s why they didn’t want to talk to cameras last year

Nursing is manual work?

As others have said there is a shortage of workers, particularly for manual work, including nurses, care workers, factory workers and builders. This is because few UK workers want to do it and if they do they are subject to UK Labour and wage laws, so employers use a lot of agency workers.

The advantage is that if the worker is unproductive he leaves without any obligation on the employer. Directly employed workers have rights on sick leave, discrimination, discipline, holidays and all sorts of other advantages. Agency workers very little, dont forget not all agency work is low paid, some of those skilled called in to fill shortages get double and treble the regular rate. The difference is Skilled.

Well there’s certainly some agreement that this is going to be a problem but never mind, it will all sort itself out I expect. ?

Just want to point out that agencies and gangmasters are not the same thing.

Davidhs
The practice of employing the North Korean workers in Bulgaria and Romania terminated in 2017.

Migrants that are caught, will all claim political assylum, and are allowed into the U.K. are processed and given work permits, while their case is reviewed which may take months. They will already have contacts or family in the U.K. to get legal work, the lucky ones are allowed to stay, the rest are rounded up eventually and deported.

Just a thought, this awful virus is going to cause much more damage to Companies many are in danger of losing their businesses. I do know this personally.

The vast majority of British food is picked and processed by legal workers paid good wages, be sure of that. Occasionally an unscrupulous gangmaster slips in a few illegals and we have headline news.

You should be more concerned about roadside car washes, restaurants, take aways, in fact anywhere with back of house operations.

Yes, I had seen the link and I'd read it too.

The government is going to have to backtrack, unless it really wants to send pensioners out to pick spuds.

Davidhs is right. There's going to be even more potential for that kind of exploitation from other countries outside the EU. The government need to get a grip.

I sighed because you hadn’t seen the link

Callistemon I know it's been happening in other industries. The British government could always have done something about it, but failed to act. They can't blame the EU for that. Many of the exploited workers come from outside the EU and some are here illegally.

But isn’t the issue going to be that the Govt is only going to allow 10, 000 in when we need 70, 000?

Cheap Labour and Slave Labour

A small minority, often Vulnerable people working in small establishments, Kitchen staff, sex workers, roadside car washes, and some gang masters. When illegal migrants first arrive in the U.K. they are often put to work in car washes, when better paid work is available the agencies fit them in where they can.

The only statutory gangmasters scheme applies to to agricultural workers and they are inspected regularly, there is no scheme for factories, restaurants or anything else.

In Eastern Europe, particularly Romania and Bulgaria wages are low, partly because North Korea provides contract workers at very low wages, it was featured on Panorama a few months ago

Why the sighing? Yes, I noticed the date, but failed to note the significance. Maybe you could explain.