Italy

varian the politicians are being advised by the Chief Medical Officer, the Chief Scientific Officer, NHS chiefs and other people who seem to know exactly what they are talking about.

Rene I, too, had that same virus in November. I was ill for 3 weeks and the cough was awful. I was talking to nurse friend of mine a couple of days ago and she said she had it as well. It would be good to have the antibody test but from what I saw on tv today when an Italian dr was speaking he said it was a severe form of pneumonia and people should stop thinking it's a kind of flu!

The problem also lies at the other end of the demographic range. Italy has a very low birth rate and has had fr over30 years. It has dropped by nearly two thirds since 1950 and a third since 1980. It is causing the country real ecnomic problems because the elderly now account for nearly a quarter of the population and we now see the medical problems this can cause

I think Brendawymms is on track with the problem in Italy. The virus didn't just magically appear. It was brought to them by infected people, possibly in numbers large enough to cause much contamination. The Italian culture does bring people together. The day before covid it was charming. Now it is having to be curtailed. They need education and support. Not condemnation.

I don't consider that I am being 'led by donkeys' and I am fully aware of the reality of our current predicament. I read this thread about the crisis in Italy, and then I scroll down to your cheap remark.

I suggest you investigate the truth of the 'lions led by donkeys' statement before you use it again; Gary Sheffield's book is very good, and there are others as well; they deal in facts.

The battle against coronavirus is certainly not over, and we are "lions led by donkeys".

If you voted for these donkeys it may take you that bit longer to wake up to reality but I hope you will eventually see the truth of our predicament.

For goodness sake, Varian. Give it a rest.
That particular battle is over.

The problem is that this country is now being run by the people behind Vote Leave, like the idiot who runs Weatherspoons.

"Wetherspoons boss says UK pubs will stay open as long as possible"

www.theguardian.com/business/2020/mar/20/coronavirus-wetherspoons-boss-says-uk-pubs-will-stay-open-as-long-as-possible

Why is it so bad in Italy? Italy isn’t unique. You will be able to ask the same question about the UK within two weeks. It would have helped us if the British Government had shut down bars, restaurants, Gyms etc sooner.

I had a horrible virus, a few weeks ago - it would-be good if we could be tested retrospectively to see if you had it / are immune.

I’m actually wondering if it was in this country before??? My stepson had a terrible virus in November, then at the beginning of December my husband got it and within a few days I had it. The symptoms were identical.... dry cough, no appetite, sore throat, temperature, headaches, being very weak, the lot! I’d had my flu jab, my husband did not. I finally made to the doctor and was put on strong antibiotics straight away. I was told it was a particularly bad virus that was going around, my neighbour and husband also got it! The cough was terrible, no matter what we took, it wouldn’t shift it, we both had to go back and get more antibiotics! The thing is, I never get ill, the last time I was poorly must be 25 years ago. We stopped all visits from the rest of the family in case we passed it on! Can we be sure it wasn’t around before the Chinese admitted it? If not, what was this virus? The doctors tell you you’ve had/got a virus but never say what it’s called! I don’t trust anybody!

@ Buddly
I wasn't trying to attack Italy in my previous post about comparative figures, God forbid.
I was just trying to point out the possible differences in reporting etc of cases between E Asian and S European countries.
Even those don't explain the current tragic situation in Italy.

Goldenage There is something doing the rounds on social media which mentions drinking warm water and avoiding cold drinks. It's rubbish and these recommendations aren't official.

The fear is that we are just behind them and we will be similarly affected quite rapidly unless we follow strict restrictions.

Thank you Greymar, very kind of you to say that.
It’s not difficult being stuck at home but watching the television is terrible and we seem to be close to tears all the time watching the news here, knowing it is so close to us and there is nothing we can do to help (except stay in?)

Sophrosyne - I can certainly believe the virus was circulating earlier. Six weeks before Swine Flu was diagnosed in this country I presented at the Drs with severe respiratory infection. She immediately diagnosed pneumonia but said she was very concerned there was a virus going round as I was her third case that day and none of us ticked the vulnerability box.

You are quite right Buddly and vegan and I hope I haven't inadvertently said offensive things. Of course Italy is a large and varied country and one I would love to visit. We should all be aware of sweeping generalisations but we are none the wiser as to why it has been hit so hard?

Thank you, Sophrosyne, and I wholeheartedly agree with you, Fennel.

Din this is what NHS website says

Ibuprofen
There is currently no strong evidence that ibuprofen can make coronavirus (COVID-19) worse.

But until we have more information, take paracetamol to treat the symptoms of coronavirus, unless your doctor has told you paracetamol is not suitable for you.

If you are already taking ibuprofen or another non-steroidal anti-inflammatory (NSAID) on the advice of a doctor, do not stop taking it without checking first.

I think we all should be careful when posting medical advice and ALWAYS give a reputable link

Vegansrock - thank you for your posts which seem to be sticking up for and defending Italy. I am english and live in Como with my italian husband and it’s horrendous at the moment.
So many pre-conceived ideas , Italians do this do that etc.etc. You are absolutely correct in saying we do not live in each others pockets, grand parents have their own houses around here, not all are in apartment blocks. Everything has been mentioned from smoking, kissing , old age, mafia even the diet and I sense a bit of a sneering attitude in some of the posts. Hope it never gets this bad for you all in the UK

Giulia we are near Cassino

Very interesting Sophrosyne.
I think this adds weight to my earlier post about comparative reporting, testing and diagnosing cases. Between nations and
before giving out definitive figures.

Apologies as I have not read every post but this article time.com/5799586/italy-coronavirus-outbreak/ includes the observation:

Yet some health officials believe that the virus arrived in Italy long before the first case was discovered. “The virus had probably been circulating for quite some time,” Flavia Riccardo, a researcher in the Department of Infectious Diseases at the Italian National Institute of Health tells TIME. “This happened right when we were having our peak of influenza and people were presenting with influenza symptoms.”

Before the first case was reported, there was an unusually high number of pneumonia cases recorded at a hospital in Codogno in northern Italy, the head of the emergency ward Stefano Paglia told the newspaper La Repubblica, suggesting it is possible patients with the virus were treated as if they had a seasonal flu. Health facilities hosting these patients could have become sites for infection, helping proliferate the spread of the virus.

Particularly poignant for me because my uncle, in his eighties and a resident of Rome died in hospital the day before the first confirmed case of Covid 19 in Italy. My uncle was a contributor to Wanted In Rome a site for expats living in Italy and today they published this:

www.wantedinrome.com/news/rome-hospital-discharges-chinese-couple-italys-first-coronavirus-cases.html

Sending virtual hugs to everyone that needs them at this time of apprehension and uncertainty.

PS Gransnet - is it time for a hugs emoji?

Sorry, by “ everyone around them”, I meant family, friends and colleagues.

Our youngest daughter lives in a central Milan flat and has been working from home for almost 4 weeks. Her husband, a Milanese lawyer, stopped walking to his office ( 7 minutes away) as of last Wednesday. They stopped all social activities 4 weeks ago and shop only in small local food shops with additional home delivery. Everyone around them has been following the rules to the letter. However, although they are well, they hear ambulances throughout the day and night, as they live near several important hospitals and have noticed that other flats in their block seem empty, indicating that occupants fled early on, perhaps saving their lives, perhaps spreading the virus elsewhere.

I cannot emphasise enough, however, how the first Western country to be faced with this catastrophe has coped, despite the statistics,how top class the health care is, and how,despite the populist,right-wing government, any element of racism has been challenged and refuted by the over-whelming majority of the Milanese.