Alex Salmond Trial Verdict

Interesting article in the paper today by one of his defence witnesses. Clearly he knew him well and wasn't a fan. He said, among other things, that Salmond was 'more interested in winning an argument than being right.' He even went on and said that he was an 'insecure creep'. He was a defence witness?! Says it all.

It always astounds me the level of “front” these politicians have.

Most people would crawl away in abject shame, whether found guilty or not.

The psychology must be interesting.

Massive overblown egos.

His trial shows though that the “me to” movement has a long way to go.

Yes it will be very interesting WWM2 - and it conveniently moves the focus away from the women at the receiving end of his behaviour and back onto the internal political machinations and poor little AS. How predictable.

Hell hath no fury like a politician scorned. He is all guns blazing after Sturgeon.

Should be interesting

Grandad I do think you are very hung up on "misandry" which as per our previous exchange, I agree undoubtedly exists, but quite honestly, compared to what women have had to, and still do put up with, pales into insignificance.

As for women wanting exclusive female spaces, I don't know whether you are encompassing physical space in your assertion up thread, but denying women exclusive and often essential areas is really throwing them under the bus imo and the potential dangers that come with opening up what should be safe "women only spaces" is and will cause problems and distress to the majority of the female sex, to appease a minuscule minority. Quite honestly there have been clubs, societies and organisations that have banned and pro actively excluded women membership for centuries. In fact the dominance of the patriarchy still runs through many societies and religions in the world where women are destined to remain the disadvantage ones. Girls and women are still more likely to be trafficked, sold, sexually abused than their male counterparts. Femicide is still a real threat in macho societies. Extremes, I will admit, nevertheless we have had some horrible examples of what women and girls have been put through on home grown soil. Is it a wonder therefore that there is a subliminal feminine solidarity at times, which maybe you feel excludes men, I don't really see it that way myself. Whilst I accept you stumbled upon Gransnet believing it to be a forum for grandparents of both sexes, although the name is possibly a giveaway as to the demographic of users, it is inevitable therefore that this site is more female orientated. Although simultaneously it certainly doesn't exclude men, but it's inevitable in some contexts male members might feel it isn't inclusive of them. Unlike the many societies and organisations that have excluded women. I honestly think you overstate the perceived grievance of men being marginalised.

Jane 10 some very good points in your post.

Jane10 -well said.
Grandad you may be an expert on Health and Safety, you clearly enjoy quoting endless bits of legislation that you believe support your arguments. I've long found it difficult to believe you are a genuine poster. If you can dismiss the feelings of the women in the trial under discussion, dismiss the comments from women here who have experienced the kind of behaviour Alex Salmon has shown, then I suggest you're simply enjoying playing out. This is a serious subject and there is ample evidence that allegations of sexual assault are unlikely to get to court and that when they do, they're unlikely to succeed in conviction. That isn't because women (and some men and children) go round making allegations up.

It's such a shallow debate. Its equivalent to me saying there is no need for the trade union movement because various pieces of legislation exist to protect workers.

Galaxy.
???

I dont really care what you can or cant find. The information is there for anyone to see. Please stop waving around the equality act when your understanding of it is limited. It is quite honestly hilarious. Many of us have worked with this act for years, we have to know it inside out. Reeling out a few sentences about it contributes nothing to the debate. You seem to think that stating that the equality act exists moves the conversation forward. It doesnt.

Galaxy In regard to your above post I can only reference section seven of the Eqality Act. That section covers such matters as gender reasignment and transgender etc. It also allows for single sex provision in such cases as small guest houses etc where there is only one shared bathroom etc.

However, I believe you should bear in mind the main objectives of the Equality Act 2010 which are as follows:-

The Equality Act 2010 is an Act of Parliament in regard to the United Kingdom with the primary purpose of consolidating, updating and supplementing the numerous prior Acts and Regulations, that formed the basis of anti-discrimination law in Great Britain. These consisted, primarily, the Equal Pay Act 1970, the Sex Discrimination Act 1975, the Race Relations Act 1976, the Disability Discrimination Act 1995 and three major statutory instruments protecting discrimination in employment on grounds of religion or belief, sexual orientation and age.

The Act provides a legal framework to protect the rights of individuals and advance equality of opportunity for all. It provides Britain with a discrimination law which protects individuals from unfair treatment and promotes a fair and more equal society.

The above, I believe, provides women with all that is required to bring about equality in all aspects of living. Sadly, in my experience, it is often women that do use the provisions of the act, especially in the employment sector.

Apologies if I am not available for the greater part of today to provide further to the above as I shall be much busier workwise today.

So, see you later, could be much later. ?

Grandad1943 can I suggest that you stop thinking in terms of legal acts and try to understand why we women feel as we do. We read of all these abused vulnerable girls in Rotherham, Oxford and so many other places. Why do we need women's hostels and places of refuge? Why do so many of us have experience of inappropriate behaviour in the workplace? Always due to men. Then Salmond gets away with groping and forcing himself on unwilling women. It's hardly surprising then that women on this forum may sometimes come across as being defensive.
Stay on GN if you want to but try considering what we say from a female perspective and with a female life experience.

Presumably the jury found his explanations more compelling i.e. that things were consensual, or done in jest.

Which may have been his point of view but doesn't mean the women didn't experience them as assault or harassment or attempt to rape.

I don't believe Nicola Sturgeon was part of a plot against AS, in this. It could only do damage to her party, to have this case brought to court. Why would she do that?

Schedule 3 part 7 para 26 & 27

I wish I could link,
27. (1) A person does not contravene section 29 so far as relating to sex discrimination by providing a service only to persons of one sex if
a) any of the conditions of sub
paragraph 2 to 7 are satisfied
b)the limited provision is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim
Etc etc

Section 27.

Galaxy I have just carried the above out with no joy.

Could you therefore give me the sections you are referring to as the the Equality Act is a huge document especially when you consider the amount of encompassing legislation such as the fairness Work Act which it is compliant with.

If you google single sex provision and the equality act you will find it.

Strangely enough it's the section entitled single sex services.

Well said SirChenin

Galaxy again can you give me the section from which you draw your information from in regard to the Equality act.

As I have pointed out there are situations when need requires separate provision in certain circumstances often for the protection of women as in safety legislation in regard to manual handeling where equality of the sexes or not possible.

It covers many aspects of provision
You can run a dads group'for example if you can demonstrate that males dont attend standard parenting groups
Accommodation such as hostels.
Groups with high degree of physical contact eg judo classes.
Where only one sex needs the service such as post natal

Galaxy could you state the section of the equality Act that your above post is drawn from.

In regard to refugees I believe it was the Human Rights Act 1998 that legislated on that matter and also in regard to the treatment of prisoners.

The Health and Safety at work Act holds also holds single sex provision for women in regard to manual handeling operations etc.

The act says it is lawful to.provide separate services for men and women
If it's less effective to provides services to men and women together
Theres a good enough reason for providing separate services.
Then various definitions of good enough reason.

Single sex provision in womans refuges, prisons, etc etc

Galaxy, please inform me where single sex provision is approved of in the Equality Act 2010. Just the general sector will be sufficient.

The landmark case brought forward under the act was in enforcing the acts provisions on midfield golf club in ruling against it's male only membership regulations.