At last a fully functioning opposition

Lemon There were many forces from many directions ensuring Corbyn Labour government didn't win. As well as for years MSM Blair Mandalson Friends of Israel A government funded organisations. There is a long pageful of things you can read of what Jeremy Corbyn did to fight antisemitism, he always stands up against all form of racism, and awarded a peace prize. He is a campaigner fighter for those underprivileged. He had talks with IRA to help bring peace he made visits to Ireland. He always talks to people, he rather talk to find peace than use bombs.

Much of the anti-Corbyn stories put out by the mainstream media since he was elected to the leadership in 2015 we now know were placed in that domain by employees and others working from within the Labour Party Central Office if the reports in the leaked antisemitism document are correct.

Also in the same documents, it is stated that following the near Labour victory in 2017 (which so disappointed many within that Central Office) those same persons ensured that the antisemitism issue would be impossible to resolve by either Corbyn's or Formby's offices as employees at Central Office sat on the documentation required by both Formby and Corbyn.

The above action ensured that the Labour Party antisemitism issue remain constantly at the forefront of the mainstream media which along with all other anti-Corbyn articles put out by those same people dragged Corbyn's and the Labour Parties esteem in the eyes of the electorate ever lower.

Brexit was also then a major factor when the 2019 general election actually came about, but by that time those working against Corbyn within central office, it is being alleged, had destroyed Corbyn as a credible leader and with that any chance of the Labour party winning that election.

So yes, if the allegations in the leaked antisemitism report are correct, I believe those employees and others within the Labour Party Central Office did have a great influence on how the electorate viewed Corbyn as leader, and it that, their perception of the whole Labour Party.

That's an interesting point Galaxy about the "mantras" I wonder would you include in those the much publicised concept that running a country is like a household budget, that only the Tories can handle the economy, that Labour government spending was responsible for the banking crisis and that the only way out was austerity? If by mantras you include my principles that everyone regardless of birth has the right to a decent education, proper health care and the right to water and utilities at a reasonable cost. Then yes I am proud to say that they cloud my thinking. If it wasn't for generations of people who had the same thoughts we would probably still be sending children down mines.
I sometimes despair of a society which has re-introduced into every day employment the very practices which made my grandfather a union man and a communist. He fought against dockers being employed on a casual basis, because no-one could manage to keep a family under such a system. Yet today I see acceptance of zero hours contracts seen as perfectly OK. It means the fight for socialism isn't over and if that means I am seen as biased well so be it. I am.

That’s all fine and dandy trisher but you still haven’t accepted the why of the LP losing the GE so badly.Blaming
MSM for it all doesn’t cut it.

Well stated trisher. My views exactly coincide with what you put forward as all that is wrong in our society.

lemongrove, in regard to your above post, as I have stated in my post @11:15 today, if the allegations in the leaked antisemitism report are correct, those on the right-wing of the Labour Party in league with the Mainstream Media most certainly did have a large effect on the outcome of the 2019 general election.

Of course, the right of the Parliamentary Labour Party and many on here do not wish to address such uncomfortable realities" and wish all that to be swept under the carpet, but others are ensuring that will not happen.

lemon I think I have posted before about the BJ celebrity factor and Brexit. Both have to be taken into account. As now must the inner workings of the LP right wing. I watch with interest to see how the celebrity factor will unfold as the realities of having BJ in charge strike home. Let's hope it will lead to a resurgence of interest in policies rather than personalities.

Would it surprise you that I agree with many of your principles trisher, the problem with following any code though is that critical thinking disappears. So there can be no criticism of Corbyn for example because that would somehow betray the code. Its possible to agree with many of the policies corbyn put forward yet have concerns about other aspects. I see no difference between being told corbyn was bringing peace to Northern Ireland to some of the nonsense I read in the Mail.

And the code means Starmer must be 'the baddie', whatever he had done with regards to the investigation, that would have been his role.

The problem is Galaxy that Kier Starmer has done nothing in regards to the investigation. In that, he has not even suspended the employees and others at Labour Party Central Office who are alleged of misdeed in the leaked report which in any other organisation would have been standard practice.

In that non-action Starmer has plunged the Parliamentary Labour Party into the largest crisis it has ever faced in its history which may well end in the organisation's destruction.

The thing is grandad I would have bet my house on you not supporting Starmer long before news of any investigation. It was always going to be that way. Its what I mean about 'codes'. And I completely understand it. I cant let go of my 'codes' either. But it doesnt help anyone.

An interesting aspect of this debate is that when lemon details why people didn't vote for Corbyn she trots out all the MSM anti-Corbyn tropes.

So, was the MSM an influence or not?

For anyone who fondly imagines that Corbyn brought peace to NI.....he didn’t help in the slightest.He was a nobody on the back benches who had a penchant for taking any side that was against his own country.

Grandad ...I certainly don’t want to see anything brushed under the carpet, and I don’t think any poster has said anything other than to wait and see what comes out of the investigation.You seem to be judging Starmer ahead of it.

Galaxy the now dire situation in the Labour Party is not about what I think or any other individual thinks or any "codes". It is about the whole credibility of the Parliamentary Labour Party organisation and those that work and act within it.

Galaxy,if what is alleged in the leaked report is correct, those persons at Central Office whose salaries are paid by trade union members who all to often are paid far less than those in that office used funding, also paid for by trade union members and and diverted that money to directly act directly against the elected wishes of that membership.

Again if the allegations in the report are correct, no one who has any sense of what is right and what is wrong would even attempt to condone the actions of those people.

Should the investigation find the allegations upheld then Scum is how I will describe those persons, and yet Starmer will not even suspend those people from their employment while the investigation is carried out.

Therefore there is plenty of very unflattering comments directed against Starmer at this point in time as his lack of action has killed off any credibility that the inquiry held when first announced.

I think Keir Starmer will be a breath of fresh air. I voted labour all my life but couldn’t get the hang of Corbyn I really couldn’t. I liked Blair and understood him. We really need a good opposition at the moment.

They were facts Maizie... trotted out or otherwise ( although I understand why you don’t like a word said against JC.)
Known facts about Corbyn and his behaviour plus his own words and attitudes.

I voted for Keir Starmer for the leadership and I hoped that he would be credible and honest and electable.
The situation with the people at Labour who actively worked to prevent a Labour Government has appalled me. I feel totally let down by Keir Starmer because he has not suspended those people.
They joked about having plenty of money now because of all the members who joined or rejoined the party because of the policies of Jeremy Corbyn, some of that money was mine and I feel betrayed and humiliated that Keir Starmer is taking no action.

Ilovecheese, the situation in regard to the Labour party finances is already somewhat dire as anyone can see by referencing the last fiscal report that Jennie Formby presented to the NEC.

There was over expenditure on the General Election campaign even though the trade unions gave unprecedented amounts to that effort. There then seems to have been a huge amount spent on the leadership election even though the trade unions paid the cost of all the affiliated membership ballot.

In the above, there was at that NEC meeting acusations of financial mismanagement levelled at Cental Office by both trade union and constituency party representatives on the committee.

With the Parliamentary Labour Party now facing litigation and claims in regard to the leaked report estimated at eight million, a figure that the parties own lawyers are predicting will be required, matters look very bleak indeed financially for the organisation.

No one can see the trade unions or any affiliate organisations
coming forward with that monetary requirement as they have in the past after all that has happened to their funding in recent times.

Of course, Starmer could act in regard to the suspension of the Central Office employees and try to build a relationship with the affiliate membership, but that hardly seems likely to happen based on his total misjudgment of the report situation up to now.

Perhaps he is hoping that Tony Blair will put his hand in his pocket and buy the party. ?

KS writing on the front page of The Telegraph, absolutely echoes my thoughts on today VE Day.

For anyone who fondly imagines that Corbyn brought peace to NI.....he didn’t help in the slightest.He was a nobody on the back benches who had a penchant for taking any side that was against his own country
I'm reposting this as an example of the absolute stupidity that has surrounded Corbyn since he became Labour leader and that can only be the resullt of MSM bias and misinformation.
Firstly there is the assumption that the supporters of the IRA were not British- they were..They were simply labelled as "foreigners" becuse it suited the media just as the Protestant para militaries were called "Loyalists"
Then there's the assumption that Corbyn condoned bombing when he constantly stated he condemned all the bombs and violence including Loyalist and IRA actions.
There is also the idea that only Corbyn talked to the IRA when in fact many politicians on all sides of the House did. He was perhaps one of the few who did it openly and honestly.
Lastly there is the idea that peace in N Ireland suddenly emerged out of the blue and didn't involve much talking and compromise.
It is in short the most simplistic and skewed idea of the N Ireland conflict ever presented, although I recognise that it is one that the MSM and the Tories continue to use for their own ends. It is also, sadly, widely accepted now. Unfortunately it isn't true, but it vividly illustrates how truth is lost when the MSM chooses.

Grandad43, how do you know for sure that KS has not suspended these workers? Wasn't the report leaked after lockdown?
You make much of money being given to right wing candidates. Presumably, with the exception of the few sent in to run in unwinnable seats in the snap 2017 election, these candidates were selected by the members. As a member I feel my candidate has the same right as all other Labour candidates to be adequately funded for an election. If I was investigating this I would be looking at the funding to all candidates, from all sources, regardless of their position on the Labour spectrum both in the 2017 and 2019 election to see if there was a marked difference in constituency, and candidate, treatment. That then raises the question of who decided some candidates were worth more than others - the Unions, NEC, Labour Office, Momentum? I take into account the fact that some seats we will never win and extravagant funding is unnecessary but they should still be able to run a credible campaign.
As WW2 said much earlier in this thread, let's wait for the result of the investigation.

Devorgilla, in regard to your post @17:35 today, Kier Starmer refused to suspend Labour Party Central Office staff at the NEC meeting that agreed to the launching of an investigation into the leaked antisemitism report. Since that very fractious meeting, there have been no reports of Starmer changing his decision.

In regard to the financial support given to Labour candidates in the 2017 & 2019, general elections, funding was forthcoming from the trade unions to be distributed to candidates within the legislation that governs such funding.

However, according to allegations in the leaked report employees and "others" within Central Office channelled that funding in amounts that we're illegal to right right-wing candidates of their choosing with one former deputy leader especially receiving very special treatment.

I would agree with what you state Devorgilla in regard to everyone waiting for the outcome of the investigation. However, as the allegations made against the employees and their superiors are so serious, surly those persons should be suspended from their employment while the investigation takes place for that would be the practice by any other employer in Britain.

Someone being suspended from their employment always receives a letter informing them they must not attend their place of employment or make contact with any other employee within the organisation.

I hope therefore Devorgilla you can now see the credibility gap that has opened up between many in the Labour movement and Kier Starmer, and also the question mark that has come about in regard to the viability of the investigation now being able to seek out all that really happened at Labour Central Office.

I can't remember who but somebody posted that it didn't matter that the accused were not suspended because as we were in lockdown they wouldn't be in the office anyway. It has just occurred to me that being in lockdown just means that most staff will not be in the office, but presumably senior staff, if they wished, could access the offices and remove evidence and no-one would know. It casts doubt on the results of any enquiry I just hope Starmer doesn't try to go for a whitewash.

trisher, in regard to your above post, I believe that Labour Cental office is open and operating with a skeleton staff.

Other employees are working from home with access to the Central Office IT system. Within that situation lays the credibility of Starmer's decision not to suspend all cited for misdeeds in the leaked report as those persons having access to the IT system can delete any documents they may wish.

Thank you GD43 and Trisher for your prompt responses. I was unaware there had been an NEC meeting regarding this matter. I think you will find I said that comment Trisher. I take your point that Senior Staff could perhaps access the office and remove evidence but that would be equally true of anyone able to access the Office, friend or foe. I have worked in organisations where records went missing making it difficult for people to prove their innocence or have their guilt proven. I still think it is best not to prejudge, but to await the result of what will be, I believe, a thoroughly run investigation.