At last a fully functioning opposition

Thank you WW2, an excellent article.

I agree - and an excellent article.

A pragmatic leader

www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/keir-starmer-i-won-t-be-defined-by-our-past-leaders-a4429356.html

Or perhaps I simply cannot be bothered pursuing this with you (clue: it’s that).

SirChenjin Quote [Tomato/tomato

The wider electorate isn’t interested in the credibility of the composition and structures (yawn) - they just want unity and positivity.] End quote.

SirChenjin, in your above rediculas posting you demonstrate that you have lost this debate and have no further constructive argument to put forward.

You have also demonstrated SirChenjin by way of other posts in this thread that you have no respect for the upholding of the rule of law in Britain.

Tomato/tomato

The wider electorate isn’t interested in the credibility of the composition and structures (yawn) - they just want unity and positivity.

This whole leaked report issue is no about "infighting" in the Labour party or even between the Parliamentary Labour Party and the Broader Labour movement. It is however about the whole credibility of the composition and structures of the whole Labour movement and whether that movement can go forward into the future in its present form.

We have in the past witnessed the ever holy right in the Parliamentary Labour Party (PLP) speak of the left-wing in the Labour movement, such as Momentum and the trade union activists, almost as if they were dog sh*t on their shoes. However, what is now being alleged is the right in the PLP and employees in Central Office went much further than just using words and acted allegedly illegally and to the extent of even preventing a Labour victory in a general election.

Should it be established that the above is indeed fact then it will be so that those involved are nothing short of scum and slime in the body politic of the Labour movement and it will have to be "forcibly got out".

Until the above is established as fact or not then the Labour Party cannot move on, nor should it move on as much as the right in the PLP and elsewhere would wish that to happen.

The bottom line is - no-one knows. Let’s face it, who would have predicted that the UK would ever elect a zip wire riding buffoon like Johnson, especially in some of the poorest areas in England? No-one can predict what will happen in politics, but endless infighting certainly isn’t going to win votes.

SirChenjin I wouldn't be entirely confident about that. If the activists feel that the whole episode has been somehow swept under the carpet they will take a long look at what is being offered to them and then decide. Some are already looking at alternatives like the Green Party and the Cooperative Party. The subject of cooperation and it's political aims is very interesting and much more appealing to some than a LP which is just conservatism under another name.

I’m sure it will all be fine - once the activists come together for the good of the party and the country (and they will, they’re not stupid) to focus their energies on the end goal of winning and getting the electorate back on their side.

SirChenjin if Kier Starmer can prevent bankruptcy overtaking the Labour Party in the coming months, and see all the issues brought out in the Leaked antisemitism report dealt with to the satisfaction of all he may have at least some chance of the electorate warming and voting for him at sometime in the future.

However, along with all the above he and those around him must gain the belief and confidence of the labour Party and more importantly affiliate member activists whose belief in the whole Labour movement has been completely undermined by all that has come about in recent weeks.

For without those activists Labour in Britain is finished.

grandad you are making assumptions not only about the issue under investigation, but also about my opinion and thinking of the matter. In the first case you may be entirely incorrect. And in the second you are entirely incorrect.

But grandad I keep repeating.

Nothing has been proven one way or the other yet!!!!!

sirchen right on??

‘We’ (I take it you actually mean ‘I’ and that you’re not purporting to speak for anyone else) take it any way you want, your opinion is of no concern to me. My focus is on the future and a party with minimal or no infighting that’s led by someone the electorate warms to and that has a chance of getting this extreme right wing bunch out.

So judging by your above post SirChenjin can we take it you do not care if your Unite Union political levy contributions to Labour Pary are distributed legally or not.

Can we also take it SirChenjin that you also care little for the upholding of the law in general throughout Britain?

Exactly Whitewavemark

I repeat my earlier post - internal wrangling and political infighting won’t help get Labour into power and will turn voters off. Not helpful. If the reasons for my paying into the political levy through my union are called into question and it’s implied that I don’t care how it’s used then I could simply stop paying it - but that wouldn’t help anyone, so it’s probably best that you don’t.

Whitewavemark2, until the matter of the leaked antisemitism report is fully dealt with the entire Labour movement cannot move forward whether you like that or not.

Let us take just one possible scenario should the issues contained within those documents not be fully dealt with. The Tory party in any forthcoming election would rightly be stating that the Labour Party are pushing forward people and policies that even within their own organisation there are persons who do not wish to support such candidates and policies. In such circumstances, the Labour Party would stand little chance of being elected to any positions of office, and rightly so.

Allowing the right in the Labour Movement to sweep these overpowering issues under the carpet will not do. The whole matter must be investigated and brought fully into the open in the next few weeks so that both the TUC conference and the Labour Party Delegate conference can debate and bring forward actions and solutions to prevent a repeat of such an occurrence at any time in the future.

Let’s wait and see what allegations turn out to be true before we fruitlessly debate the issue.

SirChenjin, in regard to your post @08:54 today, you state that you " don’t give any thought to the "political movement v the political party, or whether a report needs to be published."

However, in a post @22:33 yesterday you stated: "I’m in Unite and I pay my political levy." In that SirChenjin you demonstrate that you care little for how your Labour Party affiliation subscription is used or even if it is disbursed legally.

Part of the allegations in the leaked report ascertains that money designated for the overall use in the 2017 general election campaign was fraudulently diverted to only some right-wing Labour candidates so as to give an impression that those candidates had greater electoral support than those on the left of the party.

A percentage of that allegedly diverted funding would have been from your Unite Union political levy subscriptions SirChenjin. Therefore, do you not wish to see that money used legally and the law upheld in this country, not just for the benefit of justice in the Labour Party but to the benefit of our overall justice system under the protection of which we all who reside in Britain live?

If Starmer appears to be well up on the polls in a couple of years time, then he won’t be got rid of regardless of how the left think the investigation went.

I want a Labour government and will vote for whoever it takes to achieve this aim.

Yes Corbyn is a decent politician, but he isn’t the a Labour Party. Politics is a tough old game.

SirChenjin that takes no account of 2017. The only difference being I suppose that the MSM had had 2 years more to drip feed poison.

I would also suggest that Corbyn (and his sidekick Abbott) didn’t help either.

Iam64 The reason that the LP did so badly at the last election was Brexit. Interesting to see Theresa Villiers MP trying to explain exactly what the Conservatives would be doing to fulfill Boris's promise to those in Labour areas who have lent him their vote. She couldn't.
The reason the LP didn't win the 2017 election is much more interesting. It seems that some in the LP were not looking at the policies being offered but pursuing their own agenda, quite why is debatable. And by the next election Starmer may not be leader how he handles this investigation may influence that.

I’m obviously not thinking about it deeply enough. When I decide who I’m voting for I look firstly at policies and then I look at the main players on the benches and decide who I trust most to steer the ship. I don’t give any thought to any the political movement v the political party, or whether a report needs to be published. I really hope that the activists can stop their complaining and keep their sights firmly on helping Starmer to win the next election - it’s the wider electorate who need to be persuaded and that’s not going to be helped by internal bickering.

I think we're all aware that Labour voters aren't exactly the same as Labour activists or affiliate members. That's one of the reasons the LP did so badly at the last election.