At last a fully functioning opposition

Don’t forget Brexit. That was a massive influence. Ask posters on GN if brexit influenced their vote.

Next time will be very different as we have left. That fight has been won or lost whichever way you view it.

There are other fights now to be had. Like fair taxation, a good NHS, and services together with a thriving economy.

There is everything to play for now. And yes the MSM does still, in spite of social media have a huge influence. Look at how the headlines alone influence the voters. Blair recognised that and why he cosied up to murdoch - whatever you think it worked and illegal war aside the U.K. benefited enormously over the following 10 years.

Galaxy It is also underestimating the powerof the MSM to dismiss them out of hand as you have done. Look at the assessments done by Loghborough University and then wonder about how the MSM affected the vote.
As for poor campaigns that is the whole point. Johnson didn't run a campaign. He didn't do speeches, didn't have policies apart from Get Brexit Done. He hid in fridges, took a reporter's mobile phone and generally did things which would have been widely condemned in anyone else, but which were barely reported. The only reason people feel differently about Johnson is because of his media profile and that includes his celebrity status.
Everyone is influenced by the news fed into their homes every day, including me. It's thinking you aren't which is stupid.

Trisher do you understand when you say that you alienate the voters you are hoping to attract.
The election results in 2017 were partly due to what has to be the worst conservative campaign I have ever seen. The public feel very differently about Johnson than they did about May. However if you keep telling people that they are stupid (which I am afraid is what the MSM mantra means) it may also affect the way they vote.

What other reason can you give for the lack of support for Corbyn in 2019 compared with the election results in 2017 when he was still the leader Iam64? Are you seriously saying that you don't believe people were influenced by the MSM coverage of Corbyn and Labour which has been analysed as being more negative than any ever seen before? Of course they were. How many would take the time to look at the work Corbyn has been involved in which proves he is not anti-semitic, or to understand the threat he presents to those people who do not want anyone sympathetic to Palestine in power? Their opinions are formed from the MSM, how else would they be formed?

Ha Ha Dinahmo Good speech wasn't it? Ha Ha

A reminder of BJ at his very best
www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qkLXExBU5Q

A speech at the UN last September.

trisher, are you seriously suggesting that people in the 'northern constituencies' weren't concerned about financial difficulties or poverty?
As someone who lives and worked for over 40 years in those northern constituencies, I find that a staggeringly inaccurate and frankly shocking view.
I keep repeating that the first comment from people on the doorsteps/phone calls would be a reference to inability to vote Labour whilst JC was leader. What has come back has been the suggestion that I and others here were simply brainwashed by the MSM.

in regard to several of above posts, no one on this thread has stated that Rebecca Long-Bailey or any other Labour MP would make a better leader than Kier Starmer. The Leadership Election is over and Starmer entered office with the backing and support of the vast majority of both direct party members and affiliate members throughout the Labour movement.

However, the leaking of the antisemitism report has changed the above due to Starmer not taking action in suspending from employment and/or membership all those cited in the report for misdeeds while the investigation is carried out.

Leaving those persons active in their present positions allows them to remove document evidence from the Labour IT system that those carrying out the enquiry may wish to seize as corroborating evidence to what is in the report. Also, those same cited persons can place pressure on others who may be called to give further verbal or written statements to the inquiry in regard to what they may say.

In all other organisations, employees are suspended on full pay while such an investigation is carried out. That action in no way is taken as any notion of guilt, but only to ensure that the above cannot be brought about.

However, Starmer in refusing to carry out the suspension of the employees and others cited in the report has placed the Parliamentary Labour Party above what is standard practise by organisations in Britain and also the legislation that surrounds such circumstances.

The above has cost Starmer a huge amount of support as it is being seen as him protecting the right of the party rather than taking up a neutral position and acting in that same manner in regard to the leaked report

However, nowhere would it seem can any person suggest any credible reason why those cited for misdeeds in the leaked report have not been suspended from their employment by Kier Starmer?

The above is the reason why there is now such criticism of the Party leader by many long term party members, affiliate members and activists, and why the Parliamentary Labour Party has been plunged into the greatest crisis that it has faced in the more than one hundred years of its history.

Maybe Corbyn wasn't the right leader. I mean, he did lose two elections and most leaders resign after losing one. At least give Starmer a chance before getting the knives out. The Conservatives were never afraid of Corbyn or the people he surrounded himself with. All experienced parliamentarians were relegated to the back benches [much like what Johnson has done with his party although he actually got rid of most of them]. Starmer is now leader of the Labour Party and is holding this government to account which is what we need. I think a lot of people have got it in for him because of his 'Sir' and don't realise he's more working class than Corbyn ever was. You don't see Conservative supporters fighting amongst themselves so, at this time of crisis let's just get behind the leader we have who, for what it's worth, I think is a pretty decent person.

Maybee70 if people just said everything is OK and the leader is great how would that help solve any problems. It isn't wrong to examine why someone may not be the right person and may not be elected, it's facing facts.

Is it any wonder that Labour don't get elected when even Labour supporters seem to knock whoever happens to lead their party . And seem to think that eg Rebecca Long Bailey would hold this government to account better than Starmer will.

Unfortunatelywestendgirl lots of people seem to want a celebrity. As for people voting because of poverty and financial difficulties the Northern constituencies who returned a Tory for the first time in 2019 didn't seem to regard that as an issue

I don't want a celebrity for my Prime Minister. I want someone who can be relied upon, who is trustworthy, who thinks before he speaks, who is in tune with the people of the country, who makes up his mind and sticks to it, who is not afraid of admitting his mistakes and who is respected.
I could go on but won't.

WW2, you make a good point about a serious man for serious times. The voter can, and will, change if the mood suits. Staying alive, affording your rent/mortgage, keeping your job, feeding your family etc can be very sobering factors and they will look to their politicians for a serious response which will hold up under scrutiny. This virus isn't going away anytime soon and hard times are coming.
Growstuff, just for the record, I don't have to pretend either as my degree had a substantial Politics element. Just my quirky way of focusing in in my decrepit old age. I wish your son every success in his degree. His generation will need first class political minds to get themselves out of all of the fallout.
Not sure I agree BJ will be a footnote. I think all PMs and Leaders of this Brexit/Post Brexit/Pandemic/Economic fallout etc will be rigorously studied in the future and academic careers will be made on it.

Well no, I dont think Starmer will be PM unless Johnson runs out of political luck, and he seems to have an endless supply of that. I am interested in him being an effective leader of the opposition, they are miles away from winning an election, I assume Starmer will prepare the party for government rather than be PM himself.

I hope he doesn’t achieve celebrity status.

That is not what I want from a leader of my country. I need someone far more cerebral and who doesn’t play to the gallery.

Of course he can Olbat1 but for some reason the British public like Johnson. It didn't matter what he did, hide in fridges, never make a speech, they supported him. I've seen him compared to Churchill on GN why I have no idea, but his supporters apparently see no wrong in him. I think it is celebrity status and I don't think Starmer will ever acheive that.

KS

Five years ago I was elected alongside Jo Cox. In Jo's first speech in Parliament she said we have “far more in common with each other than things that divide us.” How right Jo was. Coronavirus is showing how we can pull together in a common purpose and endeavour

Boris Johnson flounders giving any speech. I for one can’t believe a word he utters whilst thumping the podium and gesticulating. I despair of those who think he is a statesman - he isn’t in any way. He is on a par with Trump. Im sure Kier Starmer can tie Boris Johnson’s arguments up in knots.

The voter may not watch PMQs but they do watch the news, and KS made the headlines yesterday, and was paraphrased on various news broadcasts.

KS is not a jolly listen to me aren’t I clever type, but he is a serious man for serious times.

Ho Ho Ho and jolly hockey sticks doesn’t cut it when your life is at stake.

Let's face facts it doesn't matter who beats who in PMQ because most people won't be watching it. When it comes to public appearances sadly Johnson will win hands down, Starmer will come across as "stodgy and dull" as Urmstongran said. Johnson will be bumbling and ineffective but for some reason more attractive. It's the politics of celebrities and not of policies

Grandad1943 and Iam64 are perfectly correct, when you have had a spell in ICU in can be months before you feel anywhere near normal health.
It’s only the fact that he has to be seen to be doing his job, that he was there at all.
If any Labour leader couldn’t perform well at PMQ’s under these circumstances, then they should be in some other occupation.
I do like Keir Starmer though and think he may well do very well ....in any case he is the only hope the Labour Party has.

If Kier Starmer were to take action against those who it has been alleged acted fraudulently with Labour movement funding and deliberately conspired to lose the party the 2017 general election, he may gain some respect from those of us who have paid into and supported Labour for a great many years.

Also, there were those of us who were here on the forum the morning after the general election result still speaking up for the Labour Party while other fair-weather supporters disappeared from this forum for many weeks.

If I were Starmer I certainly would not count on their backing when times get tough as they surely will in the not too distant future.

Look keep the support of those who really have always supported the party and wider movement through thick and thin over those great many years.

Oh I’m not so sure of that Galaxy. Many other scientists disagree with his mathematical assumptions saying they are wide of the mark.

Sweden who didn’t lockdown compared his viewpoint with the reality. He had told them they could expect 40,000 deaths and they actually had less than 3,000.

I will not be thanking Johnson for anything.
I read an interesting opinion piece on the scientist who resigned, his advice saved thousands of lives, and that the story of his behaviour was a distraction from that.