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The honeymoon will be shorter than most

(137 Posts)
Whitewavemark2 Tue 28-Apr-20 13:29:23

Johnson is back at work and one of the first things he did was make a statement outside of No 10.

Of course any leader is going to try to talk up their decisions and actions, but I think Johnson’s statement was right out of the realms of fantasy.

“ look at our apparent success”.

Let’s remind ourselves of the “apparent success”

At the moment deaths in hospitals are in excess of 20000, and will continue to increase.
Care home deaths were not even considered worth recording during the initial weeks, and we still have no accurate figures.

The 20k alone is how many civilians were killed in WW11.

As many are stating

“If that is success, I would hate to see what Johnson’s considers a failure”

The world is looking at the U.K. in horror and we are rapidly becoming the role model as to how not to handle a pandemic.

This is a government who neglected to provide sufficient PPE for all clinicians and care workers.

It took no notice of the success of those countries whose test, track and test methods succeeded in absolutely keeping a lid on the virus, or at least keeping it under firm control.

This is a government who simply refused to take the pandemic seriously at the start, the consequence of which we are seeing with the death toll.

Johnson honeymoon period will be over in days.

Judgement day is fast coming down the track.

I can think of many questions that need answering and that is just over covid. But there are many more that will need looking at and answered.

Some of this post can be attributed to John Crace

Teetime Tue 28-Apr-20 14:39:18

Well on that cheery and motivating note I shall go and make a cup of tea and try not to think suicidal thoughts.

SalsaQueen Tue 28-Apr-20 14:41:48

Bloody hell, if we weren't all fed-up, we are now

Daisymae Tue 28-Apr-20 14:42:59

Totally agree. While it's good to see that Johnson is well enough to return to work there's a lot of issues to be addressed. When I first heard that American modellers predicted a death toll of 60000 for the UK I thought it seemed unlikely. I now think that we will be lucky to see the back of this with less.
Following the science means following the bit that most fits the agenda. If I hear that term one more time.......

GrauntyHelen Tue 28-Apr-20 14:45:15


MaizieD Tue 28-Apr-20 14:46:21

I suspect that your, and Crace's, optimism is unfounded, WWmk2. ☹

EllanVannin Tue 28-Apr-20 15:48:51

Pandemics can and has killed millions, not thousands so I think the country has done very well considering not everyone adhered to the initial lockdown with the tubes still crammed like sardines and buses/taxis etc still operating when dozens were dying of a disease that spreads like wildfire.

The government weren't responsible for " a lack of PPE " at all, though those of you who have a distinct misunderstanding of financial management within each hospital will still keep repeating the same old thing in chorus---" it's the government's fault ", even when £140 billion has already been spread amongst the NHS. It's then down to hospital management and their NHS departments to order as required.

Though you're stuffed if those orders reach the same " type " of person wearing a " jobsworth " hat and who also blames the government in some form or another and as a consequence they're so wrapped up in their own personal politics that things are delayed.

But hey-ho, it's your prerogative to blame every Tom Dick and Harry along with the minority herd mentality of the country when and where you think fit.

Even if Boris had put the blockers on everything from the start ,at the beginning of January it still wouldn't have stopped those flying here and there as they did, besides which, if he'd ordered a complete lockdown on everything the outcry would have resounded into total anarchy here as nobody likes doing as they're told, like Taiwan for instance who have GPS trackers. Imagine living like that.? Their cases were low all the same so people can think what they like about their way of controlling infection.

I'm afraid Boris can't do right for doing wrong with some, but I don't see many complaints from his quarter as nobody but nobody could ever have foreseen that this virus had such a strangle-hold, probably thinking that by the time it reached our shores it would act like a bad case of 'flu.

I've worked through two pandemics, both times being on hospital wards when " barrier " nursing was key and no specialized kit was used as we changed into uniforms on entering a ward while our clothes and outer garments were kept free from infection. We had full length gowns masks and head-covers theatre shoes and plastic isolators were used to protect both patients and staff. We didn't lose any staff.

We also had other highly infectious diseases in the 50's when Asian 'flu struck in 1957----TB and smallpox along with whooping cough and yellow jaundice on a ward I was working on.After 8 months of this type of nursing and at 17 years of age I was exhausted.

All barrier clothing was washed on the premises at the hospital laundry and steam-cleaned and sterilized. The regime was very strict but is the only way to prevent a disease from spreading.

Outer clothing can carry this virus in the form of fomites from those who are infected and I shudder to think of seating areas on buses and trains and planes which haven't been disinfected as they should be.
UK get your act together and help stop the spread of infection for the sake of the staff of the NHS. Do as you're told and stop blaming the government, it's the people themselves !

Chestnut Tue 28-Apr-20 16:00:23

Excellent post EllenVannin !! 👍

I'm fed up with whingers playing the blame game all the time. If anyone is to blame it's China who started the whole thing. Every country is doing its best to deal with their damn virus.

Jabberwok Tue 28-Apr-20 16:11:41

A brilliant post EllanVannin and absolutely true. Tbh I have become so disgusted with the constant comments blaming the governments handling of this awful unprecedented virus both on this and a similar thread, (even resorting to what are deeply unpleasant and frankly childish personal comments about Boris in particular) that I've decided not to post on these particular sites anymore. Your comments however are a breath of fresh air and I just wanted to say that before retreating once again!

AGAA4 Tue 28-Apr-20 16:17:54

Thank you EllanVannin! People always want someone to blame. Even when lockdown started there were many who carried on as normal and some still are.
Until all of us think about what we are doing and could our actions spread the virus it will be more difficult to control.
There are no experts on Covid19 as it is a new virus and we are learning all the time.

MaizieD Tue 28-Apr-20 16:22:43

Did you actually watch the Panorama programme, EV? How long is it since you actually worked in a hospital?

PPE is bought centrally , not by individual hospitals. The central purchasing organisation should have stockpiled enough PPE for emergencies such as this pandemic. It should also have maintained the stock by issuing stock before it went out of date and replacing with new. Some of the PPE shown on Panorama was 4 years out of date... It's called stock control.

Yes, it's then up to hospitals to order what they need from the central supply but the PPE they need isn't always available; it's not in stock because it hasn't been bought or not enough has been bought.

And the NHS funding has been cut in real terms over the past ten years of tory government. Which has no doubt made it harder to buy in adequate stocks...

Grandmafrench Tue 28-Apr-20 16:24:22

The "blame culture" is still alive and well!
Excellent post EllanVannin

Sussexborn Tue 28-Apr-20 16:26:27

Well said EV. Hope you have your helmet and flack jacket to hand!👨‍🔬 💥

MaizieD Tue 28-Apr-20 16:30:31

Ellan Vanin's post is absolute nonsense as far as hospital procurement is concerned.

ginny Tue 28-Apr-20 16:33:15

Good post EV.
I wish those who can do nothing but blame would actually tell us all exactly what they would /would have done.
Nothing easier than sitting back and doing nothing.

Whitewavemark2 Tue 28-Apr-20 16:35:24

This government is getting more Trumpian by the day.

Anything that is reported that is critical of the government results in either ministers refusing to attend interviews like Today on radio 4 which was ostracised for months, now its The Times and watch it will soon be the guardian and observer as they are just reporting that they have refused to alter a report at the governments request. The report is about research that shows trust in the government is plummeting.

Jabberwok Tue 28-Apr-20 16:36:34

And on it goes!!!!!

Callistemon Tue 28-Apr-20 16:36:48

Why do we have NHS Managers if they are useless at managing? Do we wish Westminster to micro-manage every aspect of our lives or should the 'experts' employed by the NHS make appropriate decisions?

Is the Government supposed to tell them what to do step by step, or are they supposed to allocate funds, decide on procedures, as appropriate?
When they anticipate an outbreak of winter flu they act accordingly but seem to have completely had a sense by-pass with COVID19.

A particular Health Board in Wales has been worse hit than others and I have heard several tales of completely inadequate management - the Government allocates funds to the Welsh Labour government and they waste it as they consider appropriate. They then allocate funds to the Welsh Health Boards.
The utter waste of money would have paid for urgently needed PPE kit.

Interesting post, EllanVannin.

vegansrock Tue 28-Apr-20 16:44:57

Lets blame the NHS for lack of PPE - but who do we blame for lack of funding for the NHS?
We all know in January St Boris was far too busy getting everyone to chant and getting Big Ben to Bong for Brexit, plus announcing his latest girlfriend was up the duff to take any firm decisions or take any notice of a potential pandemic. but his supporters don't care - Boris knows they don't care and he doesn't care that we know he doesn't care.....

Rosalyn69 Tue 28-Apr-20 16:46:58

I don’t know about health boards but I worked in hospitals and I have a very low opinion of management at that level. However incompetent they were only promoted sideways as sacking was deemed to send “the wrong message”

Whitewavemark2 Tue 28-Apr-20 16:50:31


I would not have ignored the advise in 2017 to ensure sufficient stock was being held in case of a pandemic

I would not have ignored the strong advise by my scientists to close down in February.

I would not have foolishly gone around shaking hands against advise resulting in me catching the virus

I would have looked at how other countries have successfully dealt with the issue like NZ, Germany SK etc.

I would not have been prepared to watch as the elderly remained sitting ducks in their care home, and when they got sick could not offer them a test to see if indeed they had the virus

I would not have been prepared to watch so many elderly die without hospitalisation. One almost wonders if dying in a care home, meant that hospitals would not be overwhelmed.

I would have ensured that the deaths of the elderly meant something and not ignored for the first few weeks of the crises, until people began to complain.

I would not have lied over the level of PPE was in stock to be found out later.

When ministers attend TV interviews, I would insist that they actually knew what they were talking about.

I would have ensured that SAGE was absolutely independent as I claimed and had the appropriate personnel. Neither which is now true.

I would have tested, tested, tested then traced,traced,traced, then tested some more.

I can go on. But you get the drift ginny?

Jabberwok Tue 28-Apr-20 16:51:12

Exactly Callistemon! Having a dog and barking yourself comes to mind! No doubt we shall be told by those clearly in the know, that after 4 months in office, it's totally this governments fault, Boris's in particular, and that the extremely well paid hospital managers and experts are there just to?!!!! I'm sure someone can enlighten!

heath480 Tue 28-Apr-20 16:53:33

EllanVannin is years behind the times with what happens nowadays as am I.

I last Nursed on the wards in 2002,prior to that I did an in depth University Return to Nursing course,oh how things had changed over the years!

Hospitals are run completely differently to how they were 40 or 50years ago.We cannot compare to how we did it then,it is not helpful.

Of course it was up to the Government to have been prepared for this Pandemic,it was predicted YEARS ago!! Everything should have been in place,not dithering about,they are still letting flights arrive with no checks done on incoming passengers!

They couldn’t even decide when to start lockdown,yet they would have had all this information at hand.

A friend of mine is a Retired Army Doctor,who sat on the COVID committee for the Ebola crisis,he assured us that if we had an outbreak it would be handled promptly and efficiently,the way it was in Nigeria,they prevented a mass outbreak from the way the first patient was treated.

Sorry but the blame for the mishandling of this crisis lays firmly at the Government door.

Whitewavemark2 Tue 28-Apr-20 16:56:58

Oh yes I would sack Cummings and start to run the country myself. I would also look very carefully into the £250 million NHS contract awarded to Warner’s brother - a friend of Cummings without tender.

MaizieD Tue 28-Apr-20 17:00:51

Funnily enough I've just listened to James O'Brien's piece on the PPE scandal (link helpfully posted by Grany on another thread). He suggests that despite the current 'clap for carers' and ;aren't they utter heroes' stuff that is being said today, it is likely that the NHS could ultimately be blamed for the crisis so as to deflect blame from the government..

He must have been reading Gransnet...