The honeymoon will be shorter than most

WWMK2 I am not arguing that the UK government has done anything like enough, soon enough, but when you present a table of figures like yours you just void your argument. You are not comparing like with like, where are the @FT figures for all the rest of the countries you list?

It has been very clearly documented that there have been many mistakes in the lack of preparation for, and dealing with this pandemic by the UK government. There has also been lack of transparency in reasons behind the government's decision making.
I believe it is important to draw attention to these failings, because this will undoubtedly not be the last pandemic to hit us, and undoubtedly will lead to a Public Inquiry. If it goes the way of many previous Public Inquiries, ie a whitewash, nothing will change.
The public needs to be aware and make sure that does not happen.

oops I’m so sorry. I will put my hand up and declare I didn’t read your link.

Must try harder

opps

Indeed.

janipat will get back to you but must finish film first

There was and is a dearth of PPE - it should have been stockpiled as part of pandemic preparations; and wasn't. That is the government's fault and nothing at all to do with individual health budgets.

Blame is not a "game" - it is about analysing what has gone on and hoping that the government will learn from it. There have been many mistakes - not least the sort of short-term money saving mind-set that has got us in this fix, not just with pandemic planning, but in many other areas of preventive work in the community.

We are all sensible enough to realise that a pandemic is an exceptional circumstance and any government of whatever shade is going to struggle with it - but it is what has gone before that is exacerbating the situation: lack of funding of public services, short term thinking, and letting pandemic planning slide down the agenda and priority list to the point of ignoring scientific advice.

The blame for these long term failures lies squarely at the government's door.

EllanVannin
Very good post at 15.48 today.

Good posts white wave. You were asked what you would have done and you answered comprehensively !

Thankyou maddyone and to all other ladies who acknowledged my post. It's much appreciated.

EllanVannin, I do wish you'd get your facts straight instead of repeating the same old rubbish. You are applying normal rules to an abnormal, emergency situation.

The government, under emergency measures, is entirely responsible for ensuring the safety of citizens. They have failed abysmally.

Despite an entire Civil Service section applied to emergency planning, despite Operation Cygnus, they've managed to screw things up - not easily done!

The government weren't responsible for " a lack of PPE " at all, though those of you who have a distinct misunderstanding of financial management within each hospital will still keep repeating the same old thing in chorus---" it's the government's fault ", even when £140 billion has already been spread amongst the NHS. It's then down to hospital management and their NHS departments to order as required.

....who gives the hospitals their budget?

The government via taxpayers, why ? Do you also expect them to go out purchasing items needed for the hospitals too, Summerlove ?

Anyway, it's par for the course isn't it that besides Labour being economical with the truth, their supporters follow suit too.? As it's the Labour voters that are doing all the spouting grousing. The Guardian readers of this world.

What do you think of the 'UK government’s decision to outsource the management of the emergency stockpile. In three years, the stockpile appears to have been stored in three different warehouses. Meanwhile, management of the stock has been passed from a German–owned multinational to an American one'? Oh, and the sale of Movianto two weeks ago?

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/22/revealed-private-firm-running-uk-ppe-stockpile-was-sold-in-middle-of-pandemic

Ellan, I’m just saying that the hospitals are underfunded. How would you like them to individually procure everything with no budget.

As you stated in your response...it is the govts job.

You have no idea how I vote. What does that have to do with anything anyhow?

Its all in Bojos plan,herd immunity by a different route then blame the NHS for being uneconomical and unviable ..he'll sell it off piece by piece to the USA or anyone of his mates who wants it .Watch this space !

The argument going on with Movianto has nothing to do with the government.

It's director is one Kamaljit Singh Hunjan and the dispute is over accessing the warehouse where medical supplies are kept.
If there's a dispute over unpaid storage dues then what has this got to do with the government ?

There was a ship docked in the Mersey a couple of weeks ago where another dispute was going on over a shipment of medical supplies which couldn't be unloaded until charges for docking were paid. Is this also the fault of the government ?

The statista.com figures are wrong for the UK, Oopsminty. It gives the figure for Covid deaths at 21,092 (data as of 28th April). But the ONS figure for deaths registered as Covid related at 17th April is 22,351. That is some 1,000+ more than the statista figure and it must be even more by now, 10 days later.

Summerlove, the government estimates costs of £160 billion to the NHS this year. Do you call that underfunded ?

That's a possible £160 billion without the usual charitable donations.
Not enough ?

Do you not understand what central purchasing is all about, EllanV?

Hospital managers can order from them but if the central supplies department doesn't have the required items it is not their, the managers, fault. The central supplies department didn't have enough of the PPE items (or any at all of some of them) to supply all the hospitals with what they needed. Is this difficult to understand?

What is more, after a few weeks, as the hospitalisation and death toll rose, Covid-19 suddenly got reclassified to a level which supposedly needed medical staff to wear a lesser grade of PPE. Why would that be?

According to the King’s Fund “While the new NHS funding deal will ease current pressures, it is not enough to both restore performance against key waiting times standards and deliver widespread changes to services to deliver better care”

And the Nuffield says “Just getting back to spending of 7.6% of GDP over the next three years would require a real increase in funding of £15.1 billion – £11.4 billion more than current plans – and equivalent to an average annual real increase of 3.3%, rather than the 0.8% currently planned”

So yes - I’d call that underfunded.

I've realised why there is such unreasoning support for this government and an attempt to shift the blame onto other people. Having voted this shower in some people are beginning to realise that they are responsible for the state of the NHS. That the lack of PPE can be laid at their door, and therefore that they have indirectly caused the deaths of health workers. It must be difficult dealing with the guilt, and lashing out, blaming others is understandable, but wrong.

Thanks for that, SirChenjin.

It's all very well being impressed by big figures but when looked at in real terms and considering that the NHS has been deliberately underfunded in real terms for the last 10 years the £160 billion EV is quoting (where did that come from, BTW?) doesn't really look so very impressive.