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Should the immigration bill still be going through?

(30 Posts)
trisher Tue 19-May-20 09:41:07

As the country relies heavily on carers and NHS staff from other places and farmers fly in workers to harvest fruit, isn't it nonsense to have a bill which stops these people coming?
Labour’s new Shadow Home Secretary, Nick Thomas-Symonds, argued earlier that the bill’s salary threshold of £25,600 sent a signal that those earning less are “unskilled and unwelcome
Far from being that they are an essential part of our society.

yggdrasil Tue 19-May-20 09:52:42

well of course not. But Priti Patel says they are not important and the rest of her party will go along with it. The tories have a majority, get over it :-(

EllanVannin Tue 19-May-20 10:04:20

Shouldn't have voted Brexit then.

ineedamum Tue 19-May-20 10:04:36

There will be lots of people unemployed due to this crisis, perhaps they think unemployed propel will take these jobs?

MaizieD Tue 19-May-20 10:17:38

Just the premise that people in jobs paying less than £25,600 pa aren't worth having is deeply disturbing.

As is the conflation of 'low paid' with 'low skilled'

But I'm sure all our resident xenophobes will think it's wonderful...

LadyGracie Tue 19-May-20 10:39:31

The able bodied who seem to think it’s ok to sit on their backsides and do nothing but then hold out their hands for benefits should be made to earn those benefits.

Oldwoman70 Tue 19-May-20 10:39:39

I prefer to look at this as stopping employers exploiting overseas workers by paying low wages. Many employers advertise abroad simply because they know people living in UK will not work for such low pay. I have no problem with people travelling to work in the UK, what I do object to is their exploitation.

Many countries have conditions for foreign nationals living and working there. Australia has had a similar policy for many years, without any outcry from Australians.

MaizieD Tue 19-May-20 12:25:59

I have no problem with people travelling to work in the UK, what I do object to is their exploitation.

So you've no problem with 'people living in the UK' (by which, I assume you mean, British people) being exploited by being paid low wages?

And you do realise that £25,000 pa is by no means 'low pay'.?

Many of the NHS and other 'key workers' being clapped on a Thursday evening will be earning less than that.

The national 'minimum wage' rate (£8.72 per hr) works out at about £17,000 pa. Employers are legally obliged to not pay any less than that. Is that an exploitative wage rate?

trisher Tue 19-May-20 12:32:00

With NHS nurses starting at £23000 and the average salary in UK being only just over £30000 it isn't just low paid worjkers this will affect. But significan numbers of the people employed in the NHS and care sector are immigrants and this bill will impact on our health and social care system. This happened in the last tightening up of immigration but being in the EU helped mitigate the effect. That door will be closed
Do people really not realise you can't suddenly pull nurses and carers out of hats?
And you can't force people to pick fruit.

Oldwoman70 Tue 19-May-20 12:52:45

MazieD I do have problem with ANYONE being exploited (no matter where they come from). If companies can no longer get away with paying low wages that would benefit those living in UK as well as those travelling to work here.

EllanVannin Tue 19-May-20 13:02:32

I loathe exploitation too and this country is the worst offender for such, it's shameful, cruel and immoral.

EllanVannin Tue 19-May-20 13:07:22

People in this country have made their millions through exploitation off the backs of hard working people, no matter where the workers came from. It's sickening .

I don't know of one millionaire whose earned his/her wealth through hard graft.

Puzzler61 Tue 19-May-20 13:22:04

I agree EllanV .
With global trading the countries already adept at it have shared their knowledge of how to with those who once treated workers with care and respect.

GrannyGravy13 Tue 19-May-20 13:39:33

I do hope all against exploitation of the workers do not buy Spanish fruit and veg, the majority of which comes from vast acre after acre of plastic poly tunnels cared for by African migrants on pitiful wages forced to live in slum accommodation and paid a pittance.

This Bill should stop employers advertising abroad for cheap labour and hopefully have a knock on effect of higher wages here.

Puzzler61 Tue 19-May-20 13:47:26

GrannyG I try wherever possible to buy fruit and veg from farmers’ markets and meat from local sources. I’m no angel though and buy clementines, blueberries, bananas and aubergines which do come from ‘abroad’ as I enjoy them.

GrannyGravy13 Tue 19-May-20 13:53:25

Puzzler61 We use local farm shop they have some imported products which they label as ethical/organic produce I hope they are, if we all
try and do our bit it must help?

EllanVannin Tue 19-May-20 13:57:00

What I buy is mainly local, though I noticed that my runner beans from Sunday were from Kenya.

In many cases those who live and work abroad in their own areas don't have the extortionate bills etc that we have here anyway, so however much they earn in their own country is usually commensurate with their cost of living. Ours isn't !!

ladymuck Tue 19-May-20 14:07:31

Oldwoman70 has got it right. Employers have been exploiting foreign workers, because they will work for lower wages than British people.
If all those in the health sector received wages commensurate with the work they do, our own people would be more willing to do the job.
We look down on those who do what we regard as menial work, but this crisis has shown how much they should be valued.
I think all nations are going to seek to be more self-reliant after this.

Ilovecheese Tue 19-May-20 14:36:10

Will parliament vote for a pay rise for essential workers now though?
The Tories clapped and cheered last time there was a freeze in public sector pay, will anything have changed or will it be back to business as usual?

As an aside, however many people die after having been found "fit for work" there will always be views such as those of LadyGracie Such people will never be satisfied until we bring back the workhouse.

EllanVannin Tue 19-May-20 14:52:15

I remember after Brexit, saying that everyone would have to start picking their own fruit and veg from their local farms----I couldn't have been any nearer the truth but was shot down in flames at the time grin

Puzzler61 Tue 19-May-20 15:17:24

Another unseen labour force utilised by UK technology companies are Eastern European and Indian I.T. workers,
who update and maintain many of the IT systems of our biggest named Companies and banks.

They work remotely from their own countries and often are employed through Agencies. They do not receive UK pay rates, they are paid much lower.

One of the big benefits to the procuring company is the time difference between countries. It ensures IT systems are covered 24 hours a day without the need to pay overtime rates or anti-social hours premiums. Another big saving - more fat cat profits.

Firecracker123 Tue 19-May-20 15:26:07

I suppose the threshold of £25,600 is so they can support themselves entirely when they are here, paying rent etc.

trisher Tue 19-May-20 16:17:27

Firecracker123 if immigrant workers need that amount to support themselves don't UK workers need the same? If the median wage is just over £30k there must be thousands of people earning far less. How do they manage?
This isn't just about fruit pickers it's about the NHS and care which need immigrant workers to maintain the service they offer.

MerylStreep Tue 19-May-20 16:46:30

i don't know one millionaire who has earned his/her wealth through hard graft
I do, and a lot of hard graft and going without.

Barmeyoldbat Tue 19-May-20 17:38:33

Ladygrace, It is not always possible for people to take on jobs bringing in the harvest. For a start those in the cities will not be able to access the farms, often in remote places and will have to live in. What happens if they have a family or are single parents? they can't live in. As for the younger, single people they could probably do it for a few weeks at the most but the farmers want them to sign a 6 month contract. So the young at college, uni and working but on furlough won't be able to work for 6 months.