Keir Starmer’s patience has finally run out.

Back in the eighties when the department I worked for was recruiting trainees the first thing we did when reviewing the applications was to reject those with covering letters that started and ended Dear Sir/Yours sincerely or Dear Mr Bloggs/Yours faithfully.

When writing to clients these days signing off depends upon how well I know them. Eg Best wishes, Bests, Kind regards, Regards, Yours. Informality driven by the young I think.

lemon. I’m surprised that you thought KS was misleading about the phone call - even a Johnson fan like you knows which of the two is the liar

That brought back memories Dinahmo! I worked in several offices when that happened and I don’t doubt that some excellent candidates were rejected on that basis which seems unfair on reflection. One boss tossed an envelope in the bin unopened as the applicant had misspelled his name!

As you say, young people tend to push for informality and we all move on.

Johnson’s fans will never admit their hero is not perfect in every way.
As for being “ proud” Of our response to cv - our death toll yesterday was higher than ALL the EU 27 put together. Great - we’re beating them.

lemon I know this will be disappointing news, but what is absolutely known to be true is that Johnson mostly lies as soon as he opens his mouth along with his fellow collaborators comically known as the Cabinet. They all in turn learnt their art of deception from that arch nihilist Cummings, who runs the government with an iron fist.

Contrast that with Starmer.

Nothing more needs to be said.

After all I have written about Johnson both before ( not my choice for PM) and since ( sometimes gets it right.ie.Brexit)
And sometimes gets things wrong ( though I give him credit for bouncing back from the virus and ICU) I hardly qualify as somebody who considers him a hero and certainly not a fan.
I do think though that he was the right choice as it turned out
For the Conservatives to back him as Leader, and he is part of the reason ( a big part) of getting them elected with such a large majority.
That was only in December.There was the Brexit deadline at the end of Jan, which it was done by, floods in the country and then Covid-19. All in all a baptism of fire, and he hasn’t done at all bad considering his own ill health.What happens in the next year or two is key, but we are not there yet.
I did think that Starmer was a bit ‘twisty’ with the truth in the Commons.I have long thought that all politicians are like this, it’s part of their games in Parliament.
All PM’s have their advisors who are sometimes considered to have too much influence, T May had a couple who more or less replaced her Cabinet (look what happened there) and Blair had AC who was another Cummings figure who terrified the civil servants and all who came into contact with him.
Was he good at his job? Yes, very.Is Cummings? Yes, certainly so far.

Why say "back in the eighties" when "in the eighties" is concise and sufficient?

"Back in" is American popular vernacular . I wonder why the irritating and superfluous phrase has become popular in England.

lemon But you must see that he is simply not cut out for the job? He isn’t as bright as he led us to believe, in fact he’s a bit dim and against Starmer it is like a lamb to the slaughter and Johnson knows it. You have only to look at his body language and to listen to him to know that he can’t cope with the questioning in PMQs .
Johnson is clearly very uncomfortable facing a man of superior intellect and morality. That is why he resorted to anger yesterday. That in the absence of any preparation or control Johnson became snappy and defensive.

As for the letter, it is common practice for the pm to reply directly to the leader of the opposition usually by another letter, however Johnson didn’t. Anyway he wishes to spin or lie about it he didn’t reply to Starmer as is common courtesy.

Instead he used a joint conference call as the excuse for his discourtesy. He lied his way out of the question as is common practice for Johnson.

I think the point has been made Alexa about how language and written English changes over the decades and what once would have been seen as an Americanism is common usage.

Indeed yes, Pantglas. But there are general principles that apply to elegant American English and elegant British English. One of those principles is expressiveness without thoughtless cliches.

No hiding place for Boris at PMQs

John Crace nails it again. Always worth reading his articles.

The thing is WWM2 that the brief time in the Commons for PMQ’s is a very tiny part of what the PM does.It’s not a court of law, and if any PM’s becomes short in their tone or snappy etc it really doesn’t matter much.
I would agree that Starmer is the more ‘moral’ human being from all I have read, but that doesn’t matter much either in what makes a good PM ( as opposed to a good man.)
It’s all about what he does for the country over the next few years, he won’t have the luxury of ‘normal times’ of course,
And the next year in particular would test the greatest PM ever to have lived.

sometimes gets it right.ie.Brexit

I do hope the work they do with children teaches them more than some learned in their schooling. When my grandson was about seven (he is now nine, so this is current) he was ask to write five things about a favourite adult that were facts and five that were opinions. Perhaps we should send all adults back to learn how to differentiate between these. It is not a fact that Brexit is "doing the right thing", we will not know that for many years, maybe decades. Boris is not known for "doing the right thing" there is far more factual evidence that he often doesn't. The fact that his opinion and yours are occasionally the same is not evidence that he is currently the right man for the job LG. Sadly though we currently have to make do with him.

I don't think KS has run out of patience. He is simply trying to be the constructive but critical part of the government, as is his job. We have two things which have the potential to add to the current disaster right now. We have still got a very high 'R', even if it is the right side of 1. We also have a test an trace service which is not yet fit for purpose. We therefore have two simple choices. We either take time pulling back from lockdown and get our T and T up to a standard so that it will actually provide more protection or we prioritise drawing back from lockdown and risk many more deaths. We can see which Johnson has chosen so he needs to explain why and what the consequences will be, not attack childishly and personally the man doing his job as reasoned critic of the government.

If reports are to be believed (and they come from reputable sources and go back years) Boris is not work orientated. This is why he comes unprepared to PMQs and doesn’t have any genuine answers only waffle and bluff. That’s why he’s known as Blustering Boris.

‘Doing the right thing’.....for those who actually voted for Brexit.
The wilful paralysis of Parliament was unblocked by Johnson getting into power with such a large majority, and meeting the Jan deadline for us leaving the EU.
I think there were more than a few people in the UK who were happy with that.It was one of the things that he was elected for and was in the Conservative manifesto.

How about replying to the bit that doesn't relate directly to you LG? I was just separating fact from opinion. So you give us more opinion. "wilful paralysis of Parliament" is not what this thread is about.

Try talking about politics rather than people and talk about the second paragraph which brought us back on topic.

I see Starmer is doing a half hour monthly slot to answer questions on LBC.

I shall listen to the first one.

What time WW, please?

This may interest those interested in the government's handling of the pandemic.

www.facebook.com/scientistsforeu/videos/871197240058225/

9am on Monday

GGumt it’s all opinion! To say that Starmer is running out of patience is an opinion.
I would say that he is happy and confident in his new role, after all, being in Opposition when we are having such a hard time as a country is usually a godsend for the other side.
To take the points in the OP one by one:
Every leader of every country is ‘winging it’ on easing lockdown, the results are unknown, but it has to be tried, we cannot stay locked down forever.
It’s only used ( the dead cat theory) to further discredit Johnson, in any case, Scotland, NI and Wales all eased lockdown regulations at the same time ( they aren’t seeking to help Cummings!)
Simply saying that Johnson has to ‘get a grip’ doesn’t mean that he hasn’t done, so far he and other ministers are doing all they can.
Ditto, saying there is no exit strategy doesn’t mean there isn’t.
The government have said all along that easing restrictions all depends on what then happens, and it will be done in baby steps.Caution at every stage.

Other countries are doing much the same.Starmer is the Opposition and has to be seen as opposing, that’s all it is.

GGumt it’s all opinion!

No, of course, it isn't. Why address me and then deconstruct the OP. I didn't write it. First you talk about yourself and now the OP. Where does that take us?

My post is not all opinion and where it is it is flagged as that, e.g., I don't think so I obviously don't expect it to be treated as fact.

However: We have still got a very high 'R', even if it is the right side of 1. We also have a test an[d] trace service which is not yet fit for purpose. are facts or what I obviously believe the facts to be. I then conclude from that We therefore have two simple choices. We either take time pulling back from lockdown and get our T and T up to a standard so that it will actually provide more protection or we prioritise drawing back from lockdown and risk many more deaths.

If you have other or further facts to add which prove or disprove my conclusion then tell me, I would truly be interested and like to grow my knowledge.

It's not that important - just confusing as to why you address me about what the OP wrote and what are basically your feelings. I am interested in why you conclude what you conclude not just some airy, fairy feeling. I don't know you so why would I be? Different tribes LG. That's all can get to. Half base things on feelings - even if they are not based on true facts - and the other half want the facts to build an opinion and don't, or try not to, confuse the two.

GGumteenth So many people on here write as though their opinions were facts. I try to remember to insert IMO or IMHO when I'm writing.

I listened to James O'Brien on LBC a lot last year during the Brexit debates. He was constantly asking people for facts in support of their opinions which they could not give. I and many others (nearly all Remainers) gave facts whereas others (mainly leavers) just gave their opinions. Those that provided facts were often derided for doing so.

Dinahmo
Seeing as you are do keen on giving fact and not opinion
Please support your statement:
I and many others (nearly all Remainers) gave facts whereas others (mainly leavers) just gave their opinions. Those that provided facts were often derided for doing so
With evidence, or is it just your opinion that Leavers did not give facts?
selective hearing and comprehension does occasionally cause issues.

With evidence, or is it just your opinion that Leavers did not give facts?

I will put my hands in the air, Joelsnan and say that you have always been an honourable exception.

But mostly discussing anything with a Leaver was frustrating because we were rarely given any facts and, if we were, we weren't given the evidence for them. I don't think, for e.g that you'd find many links to back up what they are saying on a Leaver's post.

I don't think anyone wants to trawl back through hundreds of posts to prove that though.

Dinah one can make logical assumptions in everyday live without empirical facts. Until we have something that can be strapped onto someone’s head, pick up and read brain signals we will do what humans have done for years - read facial expressions, body language and listen to their words.

Without this the human race would not have survived

Scenario: Stone Age hunters
Hunter 1 Fred ‘That bear looks angry. Run!’
Hunter 2 Barney ‘Where is your evidence for that opinion Fred?’

Back at Cave
Common Law Wife ‘Where is Barney?’
Fred ‘IMO the bear got him!’