George Floyd Protests in Hyde Park

William Wilberforce anyone?

Grandad. Another excellent post from you. You are so right when you state that we cannot judge the attitudes of people 200 years ago + with attitudes of today as they were diametrically different in many many respects. You mentioned Dresden. My father was air crew in Bomber Command, he was killed over the Netherlands at Christmas 1942, just before I was born . I am, perhaps understandably proud of him and the sacrifice he and many others made. My mother like many of her generation regarded the bombing as totally necessary and would never have had it any other way. Me? Yes! but?! Dresden? All my life I've been glad and relieved that he didn't do that!

Maddyone: Telling people not to gather in groups of more than 6 or 8 people is not dealing with the mass civil disobedience of the present demonstrations.

There is already a suggestion for an excellent candidate whose statue should be erected in Bristol, Whitewave.
Kate could suggest putting one up in Reading if she wishes and David might like to start a campaign for his choice in Manchester.

In the meantime there is already a campaign underway in Bristol and a very worthy candidate.
See my earlier posts

Grandad1943: History viewed from a privileged insula life in Britain today somewhat spurious. If one believes the bombing of Dresden a war crime then what would you call the “Blitz on London” previously. Those men and women, who gave their all in a fight to prevent the subjugation of many nations of the world, heroes to whom the people of Britain today owe a life-long debt. Without their sacrifice you can be sure there would be no demonstrations taking place. The same applies to Nagasaki and Hiroshima for without them many more allied men, woman and children would have been put to the sword. Add to them the men and women in this present epidemic risking life and limb to help others: long should we honour those who serve – not those who create mayhem through privileged naivety and ignorance.

Professor Kate Williams

“So when we talk about what should replace statues of slave traders, rather than choosing all white abolitionists, let's commemorate freed slaves such as Equiano, Somersett and Knight who fought for their own freedom and forced Britain to confront the horror of the slave trade
and (white) middle class abolitionists. Actually much due to freed slave abolitionists eg #Equiano and big law cases 1) freed slave James Somersett 2) insurance claim after massacre on slave ship Zong.”

An example Black history hidden from general knowledge.

Trisher, please don't patronise me. I did not post inaccuracies. They were the words of the protestor. I simply pointed out that he should consider Hitler's views on an Aryan Race. As someone who spent 20 years working in a multi cultural university that is based in a multi cultural town I do know something about the issues BAME people face on a daily basis. Incidentally, I also worked in the 'Africa Centre' in the same town, helping recently arrived immigrants. I think my credentials are pretty sound, don't you?

This

"Today is the first full day since 1895 on which the effigy of a mass murderer does not cast its shadow over Bristol’s city centre" -
@DavidOlusoga

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202006/medium-874664-b502c324-11d0-4ce7-8fb7-d631cda5a690.jpeg https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202006/medium-540852-d7710fb4-9dba-4bad-9f63-2e0598507c0e.jpeg

Here is an example of some thuggery.

On the subject of ‘thuggery’ and the smashing up of private property.. let’s talk about these guys.

The bullingdon club

Smashing up restaurants and business not for any particular reason except “it was a laugh” and had rich parents so they wouldn’t have to face

Why is everyone going on about 'the destruction of public property'?

The statue wasn't destroyed, just relocated...

sparklingsilver
The government has banned large gatherings of people, in fact the law states quite clearly that there must not be any public gatherings of more than six people. I believe it is eight people in Scotland. For whatever reason, the powers that be decided to ignore the law in these cases. I imagine any family who decide to gather together in a garden or park, maybe seven or eight of them, might feel very aggrieved if the police decided to fine them.

I’m shocked GrannyGravy that a teacher was not only there, but happy to tell the world that he/she is a teacher. I was also a teacher, but under the current Covid19 conditions, I wouldn’t have been anywhere near such a large crowd, who could unwittingly be spreading the infection. I don’t only value my own life, I valued the lives of the children I taught, and the lives of their families. This is what has upset me the most about this whole situation

To judge past actions by today's values is a very difficult assessment to make. In the seventeen and eighteen hundreds, slavery was very much an accepted part of British life. In that period many middle-class families owned a slave even if they never saw him or her as they were working in America or the west indies on the sugar or cotton plantations.

To the above owners that slave was just an investment. By today's standards, the foregoing is rightly viewed as disgusting, but in that period it was just a part of everyday normal life.

In more recent history the bombing of the city of Dresden in the last days of world war two in which it is thought that as many as two hundred and fifty thousand may have died is today viewed by many as a war crime. However, when I spoke to my parents about that thirty-six-hour air raid on a defenceless city to my parents in the mid Nineteen sixties they had no sympathy whatsoever for the inhabitants of that German community.

My parents just as with all British people had suffered six and a half years of war at that time, and anything that would bring that situation to an end, no matter how barbaric, was worth it in their eyes.

Therefore, where my parents and all who shared their view in regard to that raid wrong, were they supporters of war criminality?

As such were the British people wrong in the maintenance of slavery when they knew of no other circumstance throughout their lifetimes?

GagaJo: I believe I stated my opinion very clearly. Racism and thuggery both criminal offences. And a civilised manner of serving justice does not justify either!

Thank goodness the instigator of anti-Semitism went, eh ? Old crow that he was.

sparklingsilver28 Mon 08-Jun-20 14:46:27
The demonstrations taking place in Britain, over the death of a man in the USA, an excuse.

The UK is racist too. Thank goodness we have people that are prepared to stand up to say it's wrong. OK, so the protests at the moment AREN'T a good idea. But if you're white you have NO idea what BAME people in the UK go through.

Racism in schools. Insults on the street. Bullying. Police harassment and violence. Just because of the colour of their skin. To call it an excuse is disgusting and is gas lighting.

The demonstrations taking place in Britain, over the death of a man in the USA, an excuse. There is a generation in Britain today who have no sense of national identity and who rely on social media to form their opinion. Made up of the naively childish and anarchists ready to create mayhem at any and every opportunity. What is difficult to understand, why the government has not banned all public protests during this unprecedented health emergency; and taken steps to clear the streets of those gathering to destroy over the last few days. Why should a majority public have to put up with any disruptive, destructive rogue element doing its utmost to subjugate Britain; and just ask yourself when have you ever seen USA citizens engaging in thuggery demonstrations on behalf of British issues.

If something is wrong it's wrong. If it's against the law, it's against the law Whitewavemark.

Smiless2012 I did see one interview with a teacher who was in the midst of the protest in Bristol, if I had a child or grandchild in her class they would not be in school today.

I would have written to the School Head and Governors regarding the total disregard of social distancing and the risk of introducing Covid-19 into the school.

almostelderly if you don't want me to correct you don't post inaccuracies. You criticised a demonstrator saying He didn't do it for black people or people of colour. He did it purely for colonialism'. This person needs a history lesson, has he never heard of Adolf Hitler and his Aryan Race?
The demonstrator was right. Churchill didn't believe black people or people of colour should be treated equally. He wrote about using gas to wipe out the Kurds. When there was famine in India he refused to send help and 3 million people starved to death.

Here are some positives about Bristol, if anyone is the slightest bit interested:

Civil rights campaigner who helped bring about new laws in the UK, Dr Paul Stephenson OBE:
www.prideofbritain.com/component/k2/dr-paul-stephenson-obe

Marvin Rees, Europe's first directly elected black Mayor:
www.bristol.gov.uk/mayor/biography-of-the-mayor#:~:text=About%20Marvin,-Marvin%20Rees%20is&text=Marvin%20Rees%20was%20elected%20mayor,a%20fairer%2C%20more%20inclusive%20world

Sorry, GrannyGravy to veer off the subject of your OP but Bristol seems to be getting a very bad name on this thread from people who have probably never even been there.

Yes, the thought of a new and very high peak of this virus because of the lack of self-distancing over the last few days is very worrying.

The destruction of the statue pales into insignificance besides the destruction of Colstons property though doesn’t it?

It's a shame the your OP has gone off the subject GrannyGravy. I wonder how many who've been protesting so recklessly work in the NHS. It really is very worrying.

Yes we were Whitewavemark and it was wrong just as the destruction of public property is wrong.

I should have added inequality too, of which is obscene.