Black Lives Matter versus All Lives Matter

Changing the name of a street does not mean it will change the views of people living in the street

*At least 3 more statues are coming down, goodness knows what's going to replace the empty plinths/columns.

Liverpool's famous Rodney street is in for a name change along with a couple of others.*

And?

At least 3 more statues are coming down, goodness knows what's going to replace the empty plinths/columns.

Liverpool's famous Rodney street is in for a name change along with a couple of others.

Is Bristol a worse place today than it was before the statue was removed? Is anyone suffering by its removal?

It might cause more anger, but should also cause more education.

I will say, I have a hard time understanding why people get so upset about the removal of statues/names on buildings of people, who by today’s standards are not people we would admire.

They might have been “of their time”, but we should learn, move on, and do better from that

Of course Starblaze it's all about educating.
But how do we get balance when the removal of some statues will cause ill feeling to some? Isn't this just going to cause more anger?

The problem with statues is they are generally commemorative and perhaps that's not something we want celebrated. Remembered yes, those statues will still exist in books and books are how we get our history.

I agree Starblaze And also statues often commemorate one specific aspect of a persons life/actions but with no recognition/acknowledgement of other actions etc. In the case of Colston that statue celebrated the man as a great philanthropist whilst completely ignoring the fact that he made that money he was generous with by being one of the most ruthless and cruel slave traders of his time!!

The poor man who was killed in cold blood ? it was also a crime against humanity ... to not be disgusted, angry, outraged and upset at what the world witnessed with George Floyd, is something only a person with no heart or soul would be made of ?

Jishere, I understand because I used to be the same, I grew up in poverty and not really exposed to racism and not thinking it really happened. My opinions have changed dramatically with time as I've seen how widespread it is.

The problem with statues is they are generally commemorative and perhaps that's not something we want celebrated. Remembered yes, those statues will still exist in books and books are how we get our history.

One of my favourite things about history in schools now is that children aren't really taught sides, they are shown what happened and encouraged to see and understand both sides and how situations happened. This teaches them how to think critically and apply history to their own lives.

This helps us understand each other now. Some are racist, true, and are bad people, some however just need to understand and learn and be a bit better than they were before.

Thank you Starblaze for explaining that although said abuse at work was put down as racial abuse. I have been slightly confused with the term white priveledged. I can see how I may have taken that for granted.

Just watched a video of football supporters guarding the statue of Winston as protestors shout Winston is a racislist?
My problem with all this destroying or trying to destroy statues if they are that offence why have people not tried to get them removed before?
No one can 're write history we can only learn, grow and go forward together.

dayvidg

@Bluebelle 'Saying ‘all lives matter’ is so totally missing the point, white lives have always mattered, have always been privileged,' Did this apply between 1914 -1918?

Yes. Yes it did.

People were not being killed Or mistreated because of the colour of their skin, they were being killed because of the war.

Racism is systematic oppression of an entire people because of the colour of their skin. Prejudice is not liking someone because of the colour of their skin. They aren't the same thing.

White priveledge is not your ability to have things, white priveledge is the colour of your skin not affecting your ability to have things. It doesn't mean the same thing as just the word "Priveledge" on its own.

Bluecat why does your God put black people together with being poor is that because he presumes all whites are well off in this life?
I know lots of black people that are successful and have good careers and are higher up the ladder than I've ever been.

How does racilism not go both ways? If it involves the colour of your skin then it is racial prejudice? Or am I missing something? Being called a white fucking bitch is ok because I'm white priveledged?

So what is the way forward? Yes education more taught in schools but naturally children from a young age are more accepting of each other, so should they not be the sample going forward?

The two incidences of black on white which I received were racist, I have no doubts. I know how being shouted at by a racist feels so can imagine how those who are treated worse must feel. However, I return to what can we do now? Even the best Femi could come up with was bind CVs which just might get an interview in a racist company but still wouldn't get a job.

@Bluebelle 'Saying ‘all lives matter’ is so totally missing the point, white lives have always mattered, have always been privileged,' Did this apply between 1914 -1918?

Yes, bluecat - that was very eloquently and imaginatively put. Bluebelle too.

Saying ‘all lives matter’ is so totally missing the point, white lives have always mattered, have always been privileged, black lives have notanan , so it needs to be shouted from the highest mountain YES BLACK LIVES MATTER To try to explain by saying all lives matter completely dilutes the problem to a nothing and it is not a nothing it is a HUGE huge blight on human beings who can feel empathy for one and not another because their skin colour
Racism is still very much alive as much as people want to believe it isn’t I m glad people are having their eyes opened

bluecat, Thank you for saying what I felt thinking so eloquently. It is driving me nuts having so many people say that such as such is not racist, when it clearly is.

EllanVannin

I'd remove the police from the state of Minneapolis, they're dangerous psychopaths.

Minneapolis is a city

All lives matter... Hmm. Would you have refused to clap for the NHS because "All jobs matter"?

What consistently astounds me, when browsing the dear old Internet, is the confidence of a huge number of white people who feel entitled to say what is and isn't racism. They even have the arrogance to tell BAME people that something isn't racist. It is like the many men who feel qualified to tell women what is or isn't sexism. The privileged don't get to define oppression.

Boris Johnson is doing it now. Who is he to say whether this is a racist country? No, it isn't racist - for him. He is a privately educated white man from a wealthy family. Tell us about your struggle, Boris

In the USA, a country built directly on slavery, racism is more overt. Imagine, for a moment, that you are a black woman living in the States. Can you honestly say you wouldn't be scared every time your husband, brother, son or grandson went out? That it might be the last time you saw him alive?

My personal feeling is that now is the time for the Deity to appear in the sky and address all the people who think that racism is exaggerated, that white people don't have advantages, that people of colour are just making trouble, that "all lives matter"... The Deity should tell them that, in their next lives, they will all be born black. Oh, and poor.

Then the Deity should quietly close the clouds and leave them to think about it.

My friend sent me this, I don't know the source:

"Here is an example of how white privilege sounds:

"You keep saying 'It's horrible that an innocent black man was killed, but destroying property has to stop'

"Try saying, 'It's horrible that property is being destroyed, but killing innocent black men has to stop.' "

"You are prioritising the wrong part."

I'd remove the police from the state of Minneapolis, they're dangerous psychopaths.

Thanks for saying that about the institutional racism in the police force investigating the Stephen Lawrence case, Eloethan. I’ve been out much of the day until now (I know - exciting!) so couldn’t get back to comment.

Talking has to be a prelude to action, because how can anything happen if we don’t speak of things? Talk can’t be the only thing that happens, though. I was astounded to learn today that Colston has been a controversial figure since the 1920’s. One hundred years ago. Yet his stature remained on its plinth in Bristol until yesterday despite so many people’s discomfiture.

Whilst I don't condone violence and destruction, it’s hard to feel that Colston’s statue has been treated any differently from the many slaves who were thrown overboard whilst alive from the slaving ships. .

Changing your mind on things like this after taking time to understand it, makes noone wrong or a hypocrite, it just means you grew as a person. Which is wonderful.

BLM