I am not trying to be controversial, but...........

I've lost the thread here.

A couple of questions questions:

Do people agree that all people (whether black, white, Jewish, Muslim, disabled, male, female, etc etc) should not be discriminated against in the workplace, in education, in the justice system and other critical situations? Or not? And are they denying the evidence that some people are?

Who's Ice Cold?

So; is it hypocritical or not? Is it ok to be antisemitic while demanding better rights for BAME persons ? Doesn't it diminish the argument somewhat?

My last post was in answer to tickingbird but I think Loislovesstewie has just proved my point.

You brought in many "What Abouts" tickingbird and they are always brought in for the same reason - as were the issues the Jews have in this country whether by you or your friend. It is done with the intention of making those you are arguing against, me or the protesters in this case, seem hypocritical. In debating circles it is called a logical fallacy or false argument and was done, in this case as it always is when it appears, because you had no proper argument to offer.

As for you "confirming" another posters opinion, I would have thought by this stage of life you would know the difference between opinion and fact - our nine year old does. I would also have thought you would know that two opinions do not make a fact. It may or may not be true but neither of you have given proof that it is.

I brought up the question of antisemitism as its seems hypocritical of someone who apparently supports BLM to post very obnoxious tweets akin to propaganda from the Nazis.If BLM are after equality then they should be decent and condemn the remarks made by Ice Cube and he should apologise for them.

I didn’t bring Jews into the discussion, merely commented on another post that did. You accused another poster of whataboutery when she mentioned the abuse of Jews. You asked for proof and links. I confirmed her statement.

I won’t be replying to you again on this thread as it’s tiresome and even when I disprove what you’ve said regarding my posts you still continue even though it’s here in black and white (no pun intended).

You are doing it again. Why am I in the wrong for not addressing the issues Jews have in a thread that is basically about how black people are treated, the historical value of statues and how we understand our own history? You have gone off topic why then should you dictate that we must too?

You did not SAY anything abhorrent nor did I say that you did. Using one set of things we need to be concerned about just in order to suggest the protesters were bad people/not genuine/not you - who knows - was what I found abhorrent in your argument. You have no idea and neither do I, what they support or protest about the rest of the time. You may feel it is not possible but I expect many of us are concerned about lots of issues at the same time. It is such a poor argument when you introduce whataboutery and distracts from the main issue - as you intended, no doubt. Nothing you have said has changed that.

Smileless - Double standards perhaps or no standards!!

Nail on the head. Double standards abound on here with certain posters.

You’re deflecting Gumteeth. You’ve accused me of ‘attacking the protestors’. More untruths in another attempt to dismiss the points I raised. You aren’t covering yourself in glory here.

You don’t appear to be willing to address the fact that Jews are disproportionately abused in this country AND I can assure you I am sure of my facts.

I don’t upset easily Gum. You should follow your own advice. I didn't say that you called me abhorrent, I said I hadn’t said anything abhorrent. Please refer back to your posts and my subsequent replies.

Totally that Maizie. I think it has been a failing of our nation that we have, both physically and metaphorically, put people on a pedestal. I was listening to a woman on one of the news programmes talking about how Winston Churchill dealt with India. I know bits around the periphery of this but we certainly didn't learn about it at school. Everyone is flawed simply because everyone is human.

We can not and should not try to wipe out historical fact.

*Nobody is trying to wipe out historical fact*; where are people getting this utterly ridiculous idea from?

What is being attempted is to enlarge people's historical knowledge with even more historical facts..

There was an Article in The Guardian earlier this year, regarding the rise of antisemitism in the U.K. GGumpteenth

Gumteeth you seem to have a habit of accusing others of saying things they haven’t. I haven’t said anything abhorrent

You are going to upset yourself if you don't read what it written. I did NOT say you were abhorrent. I suggested that it was abhorrent to use one set of very important issues to suggest that those who see BLM as important are lacking in focus on others. How on earth could any of us know that? It was, therefore, just you finding something to attack those protesting who, it seems, you do not approve of.

The first part of your next paragraph was just a personal attack on me which you seem to descend too very easily so best ignored.

As for accusing me of posting about people I don’t like??! Who are these people? Are you suggesting I don’t like black people? No. How on earth could I know? I do know you are attacking the protesters with spurious arguments.

Also GG13 is correct and Jews are subject to more abuse and discrimination than anyone per capita. If that is true where is your proof? What you offer in your next sentence does not prove the statistic you are using. If you make a declaration such as this with no proof then it is just an opinion and of very little worth when it comes from someone trying to construct an argument against others such as the BLM protesters.

I doubt you’ll be interested as it’s not on your agenda and neither is the very real issues facing black people and others in slavery today. Is that what I have said? I seem to remember pointing out that using this very important issue to attack the protesters on the basis that you guess they don't support all your 'whatabout' subjects an abhorrent way to put an argument, because the whataboutery issues are so important in their own right.

You accused me of being rude and insulting yesterday and I had to correct you. No apology forthcoming from you obviously. That would be because I didn't agree with your "correction" then. This is a discussion. If you read what I say it is not about you but about the argument you are using.

Gumteeth you seem to have a habit of accusing others of saying things they haven’t. I haven’t said anything abhorrent.

You accused me of being rude and insulting yesterday and I had to correct you. No apology forthcoming from you obviously. Please don’t project your prejudices and anger onto me. If you can’t handle debate I suggest you return to your echo chamber. As for accusing me of posting about people I don’t like??! Who are these people? Are you suggesting I don’t like black people?

Also GG13 is correct and Jews are subject to more abuse and discrimination than anyone per capita. Are you aware that every synagogue in this country has to have police present for their services? Schoolchildren (Jewish) in Manchester have to have a police escort to and from school?

I doubt you’ll be interested as it’s not on your agenda and neither is the very real issues facing black people and others in slavery today. It’s all political and many of the black people in this country and the US are being played by those with an agenda.

I don't feel strongly one way or the other about the statues as its not involvement in slavery that is being 'honoured', its the benefits to society achieved by the individuals concerned. They didn't have to use their wealth to 'do good works' but they chose, to and millions of people benefitted from the many changes they made to society.

Slavery was normal business then - it was absolutely abhorrent as we all know, but at that time it was an acceptable trade. Destroying statues or changing street names does not alter that.

We can not and should not try to wipe out historical fact.

That is shocking Loislovesstewie which is understandable why some question the BLM slogan and why some would prefer ALM.

It doesn't do the movement any good when a black rapper openly and without remorse, voices his own prejudice by making "a grossly offensive anti-Semitic comment". Double standards perhaps or no standards!!

I was shocked earlier in the week to find some rapper called Ice Cube ( no never heard of him but my kids have!) tweeting a grossly offensive anti-Semitic comment. He wouldn't apologise but made another comment along the lines of god was backing him. Quite disgusting at any time, but awful at present. Not much empathy from him.

We need to have history so we can learn from the mistakes and hopefully not repeat the horrible ones .It probably not exactly the same but I often look at my GC. and think children of their age were sent down the mines and up chimneys ,they weren't slaves but had little choice .

Sorry if this has already been discussed up-thread, but much of the protest is about symbols. I hope the protesters are also writing to local cllrs asking when we are going to see some actions of the Lammas Report, esp those on the youth justice system.
And on a separate point, can we also hope that none of the protesters wears garments made in Indian sweat shops? We should examine our own lives as well as judging others.

I have said repeatedly on multiple threads that I feel all lives are equal.

Having travelled extensively we have observed and learnt that racism and classism is not confined to those of African Heritage.

Multiple people of various races over the years have been sold into slavery which is abhorrent and totally unacceptable.

It is still going on, where are these people's voices, as they are unable to speak out, hopefully others will.

Ellan, I'm sorry, I didn't realise....apologies to his mum xx

Trouble now is when you get a bad cop in the force, the whole lot of them are branded and as a consequence public confidence sinks in police forces.
It's worldwide, there's corruption in every force which makes for a lawless society.
Why do you think there's no respect for the law when you see or hear of corruption ?

^ Per capita apparently they are subject to more abuse than any other group in the U.K.^

Who says? Does it make it right to abuse others if it's true?

Another bit of whataboutery. Why can't you agree that black lives are of equal importance? You seem to go round every block you can find rather than address the point in question.