The OECD predict the U.K. will have the biggest economic downturn and that is before brexit

EU member states won't reciprocate. They're ready for us with infrastructure and personnel... They don't want any rubbish coming from the UK that doesn't conform to their standards.

The EUs position is clear they want Johnson to stick to the agreement he said was oven ready and not try to wheedle further concessions. They haven’t changed their position it’s the UK who keep demanding extras. Johnson wants all the benefits of the single market and none of the obligations. That’s not going to happen.

“Millions voted for Brexit because they wanted tighter border controls.
They are getting the opposite. Fewer checks, but more paperwork.
A heightened risk of smuggling, people trafficking and illegal immigration.
However you voted, Brexit is lose, lose.“

I have read Murphy's blog (I read it every day), growstuff. The one you're referring to was very depressing. This obsession with debt is absurd. For a start, the goveernment owes a great deal of it to itself, as that is what QE was essentially. A great deal of the rest of it are peoples' savings; bonds and gilts held by pension funds or individuals and money people put into National Savings accounts. With interest rates so low the cost to the government is negligible and it is particularly valuable to the people and institutions which have money invested in them as they are assured that they will get back their principal, even if slightly eroded by inflation. Unlike investing in shares which, famously, can go down as well as up in value and may have no value at all if the company goes bust.

Raising taxes just returns money to the treasury and leaves people with less to spend in the economy. It has no logic to it.

We bang on about a country's economy not being like a household economy, with a finite amount of money available. Perhaps it should also be made clear that a country isn't a business, either, and doesn't have to make a profit or even 'balance its budget' when it has the power to issue as much money as it needs.

Murphy always said that Labour under Corbyn didn't 'quite' get it in relation to MMT and government debt, but at least it was going in the right direction with its plans to invest in the real economy.

So why does the CBI want an extension GrannyGravy? Don't they know anything about business?

Which eminent scientists Urmstongran? Do you have any links?

Have you read Richard Murphy's blog today Maizie? Unfortunately, it seems that there's an anti-MMT group, including many left wing economists. I'm afraid there will be tax increases, even if it isn't the sensible thing to do.

Maybe not going ahead with brexit would help even more.

We can't do that. We're already out. But extending the transition period would be very sensible.

Of course the border check issue means that the EU businesses will not have the expense related to the checks, but our businesses will have the full cost and delay.

I'm struggling to see how this 'makes sense' for UK businesses, lemon.

It might help businesses which source products from the EU, particularly 'just in time', but certainly not those which export to the EU.

I suspect the next u-turn will be the quarantine law.

Another nonsense decision by a government who is clueless.

I thought the same MayBee.

I wish MayBee but I can’t see it happening some how.

Maybe not going ahead with brexit would help even more. Of all the stupid times to leave the EU. Especially as one of the main reasons for brexit was to protect our borders and we ended up, in the middle of a pandemic, being one of the few countries not to do so.

It makes sense for businesses this year ww and maybe even the following year.It’s simply a sensible move to do it, anything that helps at this time is welcome.

What’s the betting that the government will have to do a u turn to and accept transition extension as how on earth can it be right that our businesses will be subject to full border controls after December but the EU businesses will sale into Britain without hindrance?!

A case of severe amnesia?

A lesson this government has signally learned to do as evidence by the border u-turn with the powerful EU

“An early lesson I learnt from international negotiations: if you are going to threaten a larger entity, who is bearing less risk than you are, it's essential to get your ducks in a row first“

Of course the border check issue means that the EU businesses will not have the expense related to the checks, but our businesses will have the full cost and delay. They will find it difficult to compete with Eu businesses who don’t have this expense.

Just what they need after the double whammy of covid and Brexit.

I have full confidence that Johnson’s Brexit team know what they are doing???

Blimey economy shrunk by over 20% in April.

Brexit is A self inflicted ideological wound, which will be of no benefit to anyone apart from the Rees Moggs of this world, certainly not the minority of the population who voted for it.

Good news!! Johnson has u-turned on border checks to ease the inflow of goods.

This recognises a number of things.

They can’t recruit the level of customs staff needed.
Customs staff take at least 18 months to train to the minimum standard and much longer to become a competent officer.

Food shortages will occur through delays at the border, s post covid and the issues we had with empty shelves, the government doesnt think the British population will tolerate another bungling of good supply.

Goods entering the EU from the U.K. will be subject to all checks.

Hardly a level playing field, in fact it has become the direct opposite to what they sold to us.

Project fear in reverse????

I posted on another Brexit Doom Thread that if Monsieur Barnier and Co. were interested in negotiating as opposed to dictating maybe things could move towards a deal
beneficial to all?

Businesses do not like uncertainty which is why so many do not want an extension.

Good news regarding Unilever who have decided not to relocate their HQ to mainland Europe but remain in the UK.

There has been a report released in Italy by two Professors stating that they have seen several positive indicators that the virus is weakening.

Oh, FGS, Ug. Don't need reminding that Brexit will happen. We left the EU on 31st January, didn't we. The worry is the refusal to ask for an extension to transition and the very real possibility of no deal.

None of the economists I follow are in the least bit optimistic about a deal.

None of the trade deal experts I follow are in the least bit optimistic of a good deal.

And pinning any hopes on the virus weakening over time is just irresponsible. Plans have to be for worst case, not best.

Now can you turn your attention to the actual topic being discussed here?

Many eminent scientists don’t think there will be a second wave.
?
Some also think that s time goes by the virus itself will weaken considerably.

Brexit will happen. It’s been voted for (directly and indirectly) by the majority of people who bothered to turn out to vote.

Many economists are optimistic of a deal. Even at the 11th hour.