Institutional racism in the police?

if any of those are police officers who have not reported the crime they are complicit and need to be disciplined

I agree

Hello Lexisgranny
Yes it’s easy to quickly identify the aggressive posters who challenge anyone and anything but that mostly happens on the Politics threads where differing opinions inevitably clash!

This one though I thought had become quite unpleasant with all the accusations of racism, which led to my question.

There is also a lot of kindness and support on many threads, and I would say the good outweighs the bad !

I sincerely hope the main priority of the police is to find and convict the person/people who took the lives of those poor women. What a horrific attack!

I am sure the matter of the two who took selfies will be sorted and I hope they are convicted too.

I wonder if part of the investigation will be to track down exactly who they shared the photos with and then make sure that every last copy is destroyed forever? And deal with any one of those who had a copy of it if they then forwarded it on to others.

No Eloethan nobody is suggesting all police officers are
Racist.....that would be outrageous in itself given how many police officers there are in the UK.
Nobody know who they sent the photos to, it could be non police friends we just don’t know.
Without modern culture and the craze for selfies or for snapping away at any situation with a phone this wouldn’t
Have happened, whether you think that assertion is outrageous or not.

Presumably somebody who received these photos reported them - because how else did they come to light? However, the fact that the police officers thought some of their colleagues might appreciate seeing them is worrying, isn't it?

I don't think anyone is suggesting all police officers are racist but this sort of incident will inevitably raise concerns.

We can't know that the photographs were shared with other police officers. I am sure those two rotten apples have mates who are not in the police.

I wonder at the motives of people who make sweeping assumptions about the police.

Having known many police officers, I know they would feel disgusted and betrayed by the two who behaved reprehensibly.

I have daughters and granddaughters and my heart goes out to the mother of those poor girls.

Iam64 To some degree, I agree with you. Nobody has expressed anything but repugnance for the officers who took these selfies. Really, though, you would have to be part of something akin to the Ku Klux Klan not to be disgusted by what happened following the womens' deaths.

It was said that the officers' actions were typical of the current obsession with taking selfies. My feeling is that the vast majority of people would not behave in this way, and the implication that the officers' actions were in some way part of modern culture is, in my opinion, outrageous.

Jennifer Eccles I am relatively new to Gransnet and hope to be a regular contributor. I have read many posts to gauge the type of site this is, and in a short time was able to recognise those aggressive contributors who regularly appear. TBH I rarely read their original posts, because they will be highlighted later by those who disagree. I think that the unpleasantness tends to distract from the point. Having said that I do enjoy the topics. Incidentally I am no fragile plant, quite happy to state my opinion. I do hope it does not descend to the level of Mumsnet, but for the time being I’ll stick with it.

Be that sub-culture racist, necrophiliac or some other aberration.

The problem is that the taking of the photographs is one issue and that concerns only the 2 officers, but the sharing of the photographs involves other people and if any of those are police officers who have not reported the crime they are complicit and need to be disciplined. But even the existance of a Whatapp group that they could share such pictures on is indicative of a sub-culture that stinks to high heaven.

Yes, a good summing up of the case Iam64 ??

I also would hate the actions of 2 officers to be used as "proof" of anything other than 2 officers did the wrong thing!!"

Exactly so Madgran.

QED Chewbacca

I understand what you are saying tickingbird. However, I don't think the fact that white people on occasion experience injustice and unfairness, bears any relevance to whether or not the police behaved differently in this case because of skin colour. We just don't know.

I can see why the family might potentially feel that is the case though within their context of their possible experiences. Again we don't know.

If it had been two white girls I think there might well have been criticisms of the police response, without linking those actions to racism.

I do hope that the crime is solved for the sake of their family. I also would hate the actions of 2 officers to be used as "proof" of anything other than 2 officers did the wrong thing!!"

I can’t help wondering what impression of Gransnet any new members would form, from reading this thread.

Are there any? Has it put you off?

cba with you trisher.

To widen the discussion perhaps some would like to read this article about the Met
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jun/24/bame-ex-officer-claims-racism-forced-her-out-met-police

That is the case but not really relevant to whether or not there was racist motives on this particular case

I disagree Madgran. It’s relevant because if the sisters had been white nothing would be being discussed.

Although the murders are horrific the discussion is ‘have the police behaved differently because of the victims’ colour?’ I don’t believe they have although I’m not sure in regard to the selfies.

I think that is a fair summing up, Iam64.

This case is under investigation in more ways than one; the main one will be to find the culprit(s) and bring them to justice and to construct a water tight case to ensure a conviction, which could be hampered by the fact that the crime scene was compromised by those searching and also the two rogue police officers themselves.

If the police force is, as a body, institutionally racist then I do not think that those police officers would have been dealt with as swiftly as they were and will need to be if that were the case.

There will also be investigations, I would think, into why a search was not undertaken when the women were first reported missing and into whether or not this would be normal or unusual procedure.

Until then, anything else is just conjecture, much of it fanning the flames.

Thank you Iam64.

I may be missing something but I haven't seen in this thread, the kind of unpleasant racially stereotyped views occasionally seen on other gransnet discussions.
The consensus is clear, that the officers who took and shared inappropriate photographs need investigating. We all anticipate the two who took and shared the photographs to lose their jobs and if its possible to convict them of an offence, for that to happen. The same goes for the people they shared the photographs with.

Chewbacca posted information about the police procedures in cases where adults are reported missing. There is rarely an immediate search initiated because the majority of adults return, or contact loved ones. The family did what most families would do, reported them missing and started their own search. The mother of these two young women has been remarkable in her responses. I haven't seen any posts that don't treat the mother with respect.

The police reflect society, their recruitment processes are unlikely to weed out every racist or other unsuitable candidate. Their training programmes aim to include diversity as part of every course. On the little information we have, the officers and others in this case need togo. Let's not assume they are representative of the Met or other forces

Another excuse for ignoring what the mother said lemongrove why not just admit she might be right.

trisher I really think you need to move on from this, otherwise you are doing the thing you claim to dislike, that posters are getting bogged down by personal bickering.

Let us hope that the police find the culprit quickly and the public can then understand all the details of the case.

Something I am unsure about, was the park party near the home of the two sisters ?