Update on Help hold the government to account for Covid-19 care home deaths *Title edited by GNHQ*

I have to agree with Maizie, Jane10 there has been no evidence that the Conservatives under Dominic Cummings learn anything except how to destroy.

It seems that The Way Ahead is Tory tribe don't care what he does as long as he is in power. As that agrees with his view of himself they will all be happy with his destruction.

After (too) many years of experience of dementia, @GGumteenth, including eventually many years of visiting relatives in care homes, I’m sure that the vast majority of people only go down the care home route when caring for the person any other way is no longer possible.

That is usually because the person can no longer be safely left alone at all, not even for 15 minutes, either because you just don’t know what they might do safety wise (it can be like leaving a toddler on the loose) and/or because they become very anxious and frightened if left alone.

And/or because they are up and down half the night, shouting or calling out, and waking everybody up - just not sustainable if anyone still needs to work - or in our case with my FiL, you have children still at school and coming up to important exams.
I could go on about the other exhausting and stressful aspects of dementia, but I won’t.

I don’t think the vast majority of relatives go down the care home route without an awful lot of heart-searching first, and very often when they’re already exhausted with doing their best to care.

So I have to say that pious comments about uncaring relatives, so often from people who’ve never been at the sharp end, really p*ss me off.

This post disgusts me I must say. To even consider what you suggest in a Pandemic is unbelievable, you don’t speak for me, hindsight is wonderful except for those who have brilliant ideas after problems. I commend all those wonderful nhs staff, care workers and essential staff, my family included in that. The country is broke, I hope those out there are sensible enough to help get this country going, help all those workers that jobs are in jeopardy and small businesses folding, Our efforts should be support not demolition.

It's obvious that if there was another similar pandemic the lessons learned from this one would be remembered and used including keeping our older people safer

It's not in the slightest bit obvious, Jane10. Where is the plannning for a second wave, for rebuilding hospital capacity, even, to deal with the enormous waiting lists engendered by thus crisis, for recruiting the trained staff needed for our grossly understaffed hospitals? For dealing with a winter flu crisis, even?

No sign. Cummings has moved on to trying to fool the country into thinking that the government is about to splurge huge amounts of money on a 'repair and rebuild' programme. No doubt hoping that the apparent largesse will take our minds off their current appalling failure..

I'm contributing to this crowdfunder. I'll contribute to anything that holds this dreadful government to account...

And you aren't the thread police. I persisted as no one was able to define an actual outcome for the proposed course of action. As janeainsworth said there's going to be a public inquiry so no need for this fund raising effort.

Not a good use of time or money best spent on trying to recover from all the various problems resulting from the pandemic.

Your opinion Jane10 and no doubt you don't want the fact that the number of fatalities was increased by the behaviour of the government to come to light but many do and if they are prepared to pay for the privilege of, hopefully, a judicial review, then who are you to tell them not too.

You really don't have to have an opinion on all the threads you know. If you don't agree your really only have to tell us once.

jane10 I agree with you.
I would have thought the way to go would be to seek leave for a Judicial Review into the Government’s policy, rather than litigation, which is what is mentioned in the page.
My understanding is that there is going to be a Public Inquiry which would mean that a Judicial Review would be superfluous.

I don't agree with you Jane10. These various problems mean that people died unnecessarily, and if the government does not acknowledge this, and more importantly learn from these mistakes, the same thing will happen again.

Analysis of global data shows that the proportion of residents dying in UK care homes was a third higher than in Ireland and Italy, about double that in France and Sweden, and 13 times higher than Germany. The only country that exceeded this grim toll in major European countries was Spain. (Analysis by LSE).

In real terms 3,500 died in Germany compared to more than 16,000 in UK.

I consider this scandalous. Elderly they may have been but these were people's loved ones, not just statistics.

I'm looking after my 95-year-old mother. I'm 70 and get tired and fed up. If there was a genuinely decent care home nearby I'd happily put my Mum there and visit her daily. Then I could live the rest of what life I have left without all the stress and constant demands which have taken over my life. People are living to be so old these days that their children are old themselves, as I am. NHS care should be cradle to grave with well-regulated, safe and free-of-charge care homes for those who need them. Yes the younger ones would have to pay more into the tax system but at least they could look forward to a comfortable old age.

Not a good use of time or money best spent on trying to recover from all the various problems resulting from the pandemic.

Blair and his government were held to account over Iraq Jane10. It would mean they face a who did what when and can't get away with shifting the blame. Mind you, watching some on here already moving any blame either to the families or to the homes I imagine those in the government can do no wrong crowd don't want the drains to be lifted for fear of what lies underneath.

greeneyedgirl
You are correct. One of the many additional tasks that my daughter had to do in her role as a GP, was to telephone all her elderly patients and discuss with them whether or not they wanted to have be resuscitated in the event of their becoming seriously ill during the Covid19 pandemic. She enquired whether or not we had been contacted by our GP, we are 67 and 68, which makes me wonder at what age the does government regard people as dispensable. Thankfully we were not contacted about that and neither was my 92 year old mother.

No I won’t be contributing to the fund either, but I do hope that lessons have been learned. Leaving our oldest residents to their fate, as it seemed to me, was unnecessarily cruel in my opinion. I feel for all the families who have lost a loved one this way. The care home situation during this pandemic has been particularly shocking.

I still don't understand what 'holding the government to account' actually would lead to. I understand the sorrow, rage and frustration families must feel but can only see this fundraising to mount this charge against the government as a way of venting feelings rather than being able to change anything.
It's obvious that if there was another similar pandemic the lessons learned from this one would be remembered and used including keeping our older people safer. I won't be contributing to this person's fund raising attempt.

Thankfully my 92 year old mother doesn’t live in a care home, she lives in a sheltered apartment very near to our home. She has health conditions (heart disease) but it’s to be expected at her age. We managed to keep her safe throughout the crisis by ensuring she didn’t need to go out at all. We delivered her shopping to her front door, all wiped down first, organised delivery of her medicines etc although we weren’t going out ourselves at first, our son or daughter in law collected our Click and Collect shopping, which included Mum’s, and brought it to us. We phoned or FaceTimed her every day, and ordered things she needed online for her. Families can look after their elderly, even in a pandemic, but it depends upon the elderly person being able to wash and dress themselves, prepare simple meals, remember to take their medicines etc so I do think your comment rather unkind quizqueen.
Later, when we started to go out a bit, my husband went with mask, gloves, and hand gel, plus tools, and fixed her blind back up after it fell down, and we both rushed round when she failed to answer her phone, only to discover her happily chatting to my sister on her other phone. Otherwise we didn’t enter her apartment for twelve weeks till we could form a bubble with her.

MILs home locked down at The beginning of March, no other Covid cases. MIL died in May due to other health problems. So we didn’t see her again.
Home is owned by a Doctor, plenty of PPEs and good hygiene practices.

What did I say that was out of order ?
Is it a problem to tell it as it is ?

My m.i.l's care home closed down 2 weeks before lock down aggie they've had just one case and thankfully she made a full recovery.

I don't 'wonder why' but consider it vital that the government are held to account - and forced to explain exactly how they formed a 'protective ring' around care residents (as they quite obviously didn't). A court case won't allow blatant lies with no evidence.

Quizqueen, I'm no fan of care homes and see them as a last resort. Still, it just isn't practical to expect many people in their 80s and 90s to be looked after by their children. They may still be working (in their 60s) - and/or geriatric themselves.

Quizqueen A thoughtless post
I felt I had no choice my Mum had advanced Alzheimer’s Dad in his late 80 s trying his best I was going most days inbetween working and helping looking after two newly bereaved Grandkids. Mum didn’t want help didn’t believe she needed help she was getting up in the night to cook for Dad he wasn’t sleeping because he didn’t know what she was doing when she got up ....I became the ‘other woman’ so when I tried to help dad Mum thought I was doing her job and would get aggressive and accuse him of having an affair It was a dreadful time for us all as a family we decided Mum needed more help than any of us could give... Dad had a complete breakdown and had two weeks in hospital for rest, I was going from work on the bus to visit him 8 miles away then back on the bus to visit mum about 3 miles away getting home late evening it couldnt stay like this even you couldn’t have managed that for long without something breaking
Nothing to do with the original post I just felt upset and a bit angry at the self satisfied post that followed

Same here aggie, a local nursing home where my friend's mother lives closed down when most of Europe did, not when UK did a fortnight/three weeks later. They have no cases.

I think it is just a case of the government being held to account for what she believes is unlawful conduct Jane10.

I felt she was very measured. I also think the government may have acted unlawfully. We cannot know unless it is tested in court. Some people were interested when it first came up. I was just updating them.

Aggie I will simply ignore what you said. It most certainly does not deserve a reply.

A local Nursing Home closed down a week before they were told to do so , they had no cases ! Maybe more homes should have used their heads
The Home had loads of protests and relatives very annoyed but they stuck it out

Jane10, I often wonder why people pursue all sorts of things.
I wonder if I would if something devastating happened to me or mine.
Perhaps it gives one a purpose, I can’t think that in this situation it will have any bearing on future behaviour. This virus was a step into the unknown and I think a lot of lessons have been learnt. I hope so.

GGumpteenth- I have read it. I see a lot of anger and distress which is understandable but I don't see what actual outcome is achievable.