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Update on Help hold the government to account for Covid-19 care home deaths *Title edited by GNHQ*

(65 Posts)
GGumteenth Mon 29-Jun-20 11:24:09

Just to keep this up to date:

Thank you again to all of you for kindly donating to support this case. I also want to pass on my condolences to everyone who has lost someone to this virus and for writing words of support, which have been very important in motivating me to carry on. I have even directed other bereaved people to read the comments because they are so helpful.

There will be a proper update to the page at the end of the week because Friday is our deadline to submit a 'complete' case to the High Court. The defendants will then have 21 days to respond. The court will then decide whether we can proceed to trial or not. I don't know how long this decision will take. The details of the process for getting to court are quite complex so I am also learning!

I will continue to keep you informed as we go and provide full updates at major points. Please do continue to share this page as much as you can.

Thanks again,

Case Page

quizqueen Mon 29-Jun-20 11:31:04

It is very sad that many elderly people in care homes have died but, what is more sad in my opinion, is that they had no family willing or able to take them and care for them.

GGumteenth Mon 29-Jun-20 11:37:36

Oh great. Thanks for that quizqueen. My mother died, aged 99, in a care home, in February. She had been there for just over a year. I would love to know how I was supposed to go on caring for her.

GGumteenth Mon 29-Jun-20 11:46:20

Sorry quizqueen. You are, of course, entitled to your opinion but a home was by far the best place for my mother at that stage, whatever we could have offered her.

MaizieD Mon 29-Jun-20 13:20:27

Absolutely gobsmacking response from quizqueen shock

It's a scandal that so many care home residents died unnecessarily and the lies put out by ministers about taking 'extensive measures' to protect residents and staff are unbelieveable. Do they think we are all so stupid and shallow that we'll forget about residents being turfed out of hospitals, untested, to take covid19 back to their Care Homes. Or the chronic shortage of PPE?

I suppose that the answer to my question is actually 'yes', some people are that stupid

25Avalon Mon 29-Jun-20 13:34:06

Even if this case gets nowhere in the High Court there surely has to be an enquiry into all the handling of the Coronavirus pandemic at some time.

Regarding people in care homes that is a very unkind remark quizqueen. Many families care for their loved ones at home for as long as they are able. A friend of mine has a husband with altzeimers. She looked after him at home for as long as she could, coping with the worry of his disappearing on two occasions, and finally with him turning violent and having to be sectioned under the Mental Health Act. He is now in a care home, well looked after and seemingly happy and she visits every day. My own mil had dementia which finally got so bad she had to go in when her weight dropped to 5 stone.

Greeneyedgirl Mon 29-Jun-20 13:55:22

I feel appalled that so many died needlessly in Care Homes, and the careless attitude from the government towards the elderly IMO was sadly apparent at the outset of the lockdown.

Were we not warned by our PM that sadly many of our loved ones were likely to die? How many of the over 70s of us expected at that time to be admitted to hospital if we became ill, never mind put on a respirator.

It was reported that elderly were in fact contacted by GP surgeries and asked that if they became ill did they want to be admitted to hospital or want resuscitating. Some elderly were still enjoying a quality of life at that time.

janeainsworth Mon 29-Jun-20 14:02:59

Quizqueen why do you imagine people go to live in care homes and nursing homes?

GG I think most of us recognise & accept that there comes a stage in some people’s lives where professional care is by far the best option for that person.
Don’t take thoughtless, insensitive comments personally thanks

Jane10 Mon 29-Jun-20 14:05:55

What do you actually want from this though? Older people were very badly served by the Scottish government. Nothing can bring these lost loved ones back. Are you wanting compensation money, an apology, a promise not to overlook them again? Personally, I doubt that an expensive court case can be of much use.

Ramblingrose22 Mon 29-Jun-20 14:10:29

quizqueen - I'm afraid that your comments only show how little you know about caring for the elderly.

You try looking after someone with dementia and see how you get on, or someone blind and incontinent.

DH and I tried it for a while and despite our best efforts couldn't manage it.

If it was so easy care homes wouldn't be needed.

GillT57 Mon 29-Jun-20 14:20:48

I suppose by taking action people feel they are at least trying to do something, bring it to attention. We all realise that nothing ever comes of any inquiry, but at least we try. If we do nothing, if we do not write to MPs, sign petitions, whatever, it looks as if we agree with the governmental action, are in some way complicit. It is like with the historical sexual abuse victims; it doesn't alter the fact that it happened, but it may stop if happening to someone else, and it is acknowledgement that these elderly people who died prematurely had families who loved them and cared, even if they were unable to look after them at home. Harsh comment there QQ, which must be very hurtful to those who are already feeling guilty, as if they have failed their elderly relatives who died. Nobody, I can assure you from experience, takes that decision lightly.

Ramblingrose22 Mon 29-Jun-20 14:55:47

Thank you GillT57.

Callistemon Mon 29-Jun-20 15:13:29

Having cared for elderly relatives, one in our own home, others in their own homes, , I know how difficult it can be even if they have some physical ability and still have their mental faculties..
I have another older relative who probably should have gone into a care home because of rapid dementia but the virus came and it proved impossible; it's very worrying as we are not near to help.
So that was a very insensitive remark, quizqueen.

I am reminded of the remark by the Scottish expert on dementia, Professor June Roberts, who said that COVID19 could be quite useful in taking bed blockers out of the system.

It does make one wonder if this was a plan.

GGumteenth Mon 29-Jun-20 15:21:30

It's not me Jane10. It's a Dr Cathy Gardner.

If you are interested it's probably worth going back to the page and reading what was said originally. I did put a link in the OP. If it was unlawful conduct, as Dr Gardner thinks it was, we need to know sooner rather than later. I think all your questions are answered on her page.

Oopsadaisy3 Mon 29-Jun-20 15:35:48

Quizquen yes it is very sad that families are unable to care for their loved ones who are doubly incontinent, have advanced dementia, high blood pressure, leg ulcers and are unable to walk even with a walker, can’t remember who they are , let alone who you are.
How many families do you know who have at least 2 members who are qualified to change catheters, are strong enough to lift the loved ones into the shower and wash them, dry them and then dress them, get them in and out of the bed and do all of the other things that are needed every minute of every day, like feeding , laundry and trying to keep them from getting unmanageable possibly for years? Not to mention trying to get a GP to come and sort out UTIs.
Note for the future Quizqueen, make sure at least 2 of your relatives are fully trained and that your home is fully equipped, then you might not end up in a home.

Jane10 Mon 29-Jun-20 16:01:13

GGumpteenth- I have read it. I see a lot of anger and distress which is understandable but I don't see what actual outcome is achievable.

PamelaJ1 Mon 29-Jun-20 17:04:35

Jane10, I often wonder why people pursue all sorts of things.
I wonder if I would if something devastating happened to me or mine.
Perhaps it gives one a purpose, I can’t think that in this situation it will have any bearing on future behaviour. This virus was a step into the unknown and I think a lot of lessons have been learnt. I hope so.

aggie Mon 29-Jun-20 17:10:26

A local Nursing Home closed down a week before they were told to do so , they had no cases ! Maybe more homes should have used their heads
The Home had loads of protests and relatives very annoyed but they stuck it out

GGumteenth Mon 29-Jun-20 17:15:27

I think it is just a case of the government being held to account for what she believes is unlawful conduct Jane10.

I felt she was very measured. I also think the government may have acted unlawfully. We cannot know unless it is tested in court. Some people were interested when it first came up. I was just updating them.

Aggie I will simply ignore what you said. It most certainly does not deserve a reply.

GillT57 Mon 29-Jun-20 17:20:30

Same here aggie, a local nursing home where my friend's mother lives closed down when most of Europe did, not when UK did a fortnight/three weeks later. They have no cases.

BlueBelle Mon 29-Jun-20 17:20:39

Quizqueen A thoughtless post
I felt I had no choice my Mum had advanced Alzheimer’s Dad in his late 80 s trying his best I was going most days inbetween working and helping looking after two newly bereaved Grandkids. Mum didn’t want help didn’t believe she needed help she was getting up in the night to cook for Dad he wasn’t sleeping because he didn’t know what she was doing when she got up ....I became the ‘other woman’ so when I tried to help dad Mum thought I was doing her job and would get aggressive and accuse him of having an affair It was a dreadful time for us all as a family we decided Mum needed more help than any of us could give... Dad had a complete breakdown and had two weeks in hospital for rest, I was going from work on the bus to visit him 8 miles away then back on the bus to visit mum about 3 miles away getting home late evening it couldnt stay like this even you couldn’t have managed that for long without something breaking
Nothing to do with the original post I just felt upset and a bit angry at the self satisfied post that followed

Hetty58 Mon 29-Jun-20 17:22:19

I don't 'wonder why' but consider it vital that the government are held to account - and forced to explain exactly how they formed a 'protective ring' around care residents (as they quite obviously didn't). A court case won't allow blatant lies with no evidence.

Quizqueen, I'm no fan of care homes and see them as a last resort. Still, it just isn't practical to expect many people in their 80s and 90s to be looked after by their children. They may still be working (in their 60s) - and/or geriatric themselves.

Smileless2012 Mon 29-Jun-20 17:26:52

My m.i.l's care home closed down 2 weeks before lock down aggie they've had just one case and thankfully she made a full recovery.

aggie Mon 29-Jun-20 17:39:36

What did I say that was out of order ?
Is it a problem to tell it as it is ?

Oopsadaisy3 Mon 29-Jun-20 17:55:05

MILs home locked down at The beginning of March, no other Covid cases. MIL died in May due to other health problems. So we didn’t see her again.
Home is owned by a Doctor, plenty of PPEs and good hygiene practices.