Corrupt politics

tickingbird ???

I agree with you Lemon. It is comical how a landslide victory converts to overwhelming numbers of the population voting against the Tories according to some on here.
Some posters are obviously graduates of the Dianne Abbott school of mathematics!

Then why did these people vote in such a way that Boris was bound to be elected?! After all he made no secret of his brexit policies!! I haven't said that you didn't understand our electoral system! You were claiming that Lemon didn't, I was pointing out that she along with most people, most certainly does!!

Surely the Labour party cannot be accused of any corrupt system, for in that it is an integral part of the much wider Labour movement in the country.

That movement internally generates the vast majority of the funding the Parliamentary Labour Party requires and through the annual delicate conference also sets its broad outline of policies.

The above is, I feel, the way in which all political parties should be required to operate under legislation in the United Kingdom with internally generated membership funding being the only financing allowed.

Jabberwok

I know exactly how our electoral system works. You just don't seem to be able to understand the difference between seats in parliament and people.

57% of voters DIDN'T WANT JOHNSON.

That's 57% of people who voted didn't want him.

Cannot put it more clearly than that.

I don't think Lemon or anyone else is even remotely confused as to how our legal electoral system works, as it's been the same for donkeys years! Attempts by the libdems when in coalition to alter things failed dismally, so it stayed the same! the two main parties heaving a sigh of relief! Being churlish and nit picking over this terrific result is, like the referendum, just sour grapes because you lost!

it’s easy to see what the majority wanted...

You seem to be a bit confused as to what constitutes a majority, lemon when it comes to 'what the majority want'.

They made it quite clear, 57%to 43% that they didn't want Johnson.

43% of votes cast is not a majority. Unfortunately he live in a sham democracy.

MaizieD

It was the number of seats they took that was overwhelming, not, as varian points out, the number of votes cast.

Hilarious splitting of hairs here?
Since number of seats is the way that elections are run and always have been, and everybody was aware that Johnson would do his level best to complete Brexit then it’s easy to see what the majority wanted.....and got.

I do agree that I doubt if the EU would want us back. I think I said that earlier...

He might have a vast majority of seats, Jabberwok but he doesn't have The Will of the People behind him. 57% of them didn't want him.

I think that even more don't want him now, after his disastrous handling of the coronavirus crisis.

Had the election or the referendum gone in the opposite direction, I'm sure both would have been a great triumph! No question of misinformation, no question of a re-run however small the margin! 80 seat majority? A landslide of course, no question about it! But because both these events favoured Leave and a Tory victory, they are both somehow tarnished and the public should be re-educated and then vote again,and probably again in order to give the correct answer!! We have LEFT the EU, that's what Boris was elected to do by winning a vast majority of seats in the H of C, we can't change our minds and behave as if nothing has happened!! if we want to go back we would have to re-apply like any other new country, wait our turn like anyone else, convert to using the Euro, and who knows what else! I too doubt very much that they'd have us!!

It was the number of seats they took that was overwhelming, not, as varian points out, the number of votes cast.

The Tory vote was hardly overwhelming - it was only a minority of the votes cast.

However ever since the 2016 referendum there has been strong evidence that the population wants a rethink

Really? I think the overwhelming Tory vote belies that statement!

But, Cindersdad, we've left. Can't reverse it.

All we could do is have a referendum on rejoin. And, TBH, even with a positive result I don't think the EU would have us back...

I do wonder how they are going to deal with the outfall from brexit though.

Support will dwindle overnight if the forecasts are proven to be correct.

That is when I can see Johnson and the leavers being given the boot.

There has always been some corruption in UK politics but in the past when it was exposed heads rolled almost instantly. However since Johnson became PM the only resignations have been from ministers who felt they could no longer tolerate corruption of their peers. Sajid Javid, and the Scottish Minister (not sure of his name may Ross?). The difference is that the guilty parties Dominic Cummings and Robert Jenrick stay when in the past they would either have resigned or been sacked. Dominic Cummings seeing how he can get away with it is becoming even more dangerous.

A lack of clarity from government is corruption by omission. The Russian report should be released immediately to let us decide just how legitimate recent elections have been. Lies told by politicians to sway voters when exposed are not treated in the same way as those told by companies to persuade customers; both are breach of contract.

The government makes U-turns when it suits it and that if done for sound reasons is reasonable. However ever since the 2016 referendum there has been strong evidence that the population wants a rethink but this has been denied despite the damage Brexit is known to inflict on the economy. If the government can make U-turns the electorate should have been allowed to rethink Brexit; one rule for them and another for us. If a better informed referndum still gave leave us Remoaners would more inclined to move on though reulctantly.

varian I agree but I fear it was ever thus.

Sometimes a political scandal, corruption or other offence has ended in a trial and a conviction but more often than not those in public life have always seemed to get away with this type of behaviour.

Some public servants can fail miserably at their job, too, make people's lives a misery by their sheer incompetence but move on to another lucrative position.
How and why?

MaizieD

If people don't condemn corruption it seems quite reasonable to assume that they are comfortable with it.

I think you are very

I think a lot of people have a healthy cynicism when it comes to politics. I do think the pandemic has led to the weaknesses and inadequacies of governments andpoliticians are under an intense spotlight. More people are aware of some of the more obscure cabinet members. Despite my cynicism I think I expected or at least hoped that the Government would be a source of strength in the current crisis. It did at times initially appear that had but it gradually has seen it deteriorate into a pantomime. Individuals have to act responsibly but strong and genuine leadership makes a massive difference. Will it change? Who knows.

Luckily we are not a country where it’s a way of life.

Well, you stay with that comforting thought, lemon.

I pointed out that we are sliding down the corruption index and was e appear to have ministers who are not 'stamped on' it looks to me as if we are going down the road of it becoming 'a way of life'.

If people don't condemn corruption it seems quite reasonable to assume that they are comfortable with it.

Those are your words MaizieD and not Callistemon’s.

Of course corruption should always be outed where it’s found to be, I can’t think anyone decent would argue with that, but as ticking just commented, it’s part of human nature to try and get away with it. It should be stamped on, but will never be stamped out totally, no matter how harsh the consequences /punishment.It’s naive to think otherwise.
Luckily we are not a country where it’s a way of life.

MaizieD

So corruption is absolutely OK and needn't even be sanctioned any more, then, Callistomen?

Oh my!

How you twist things MaizieD!
It's a masterclass in sophistry