Gransnet forums

News & politics

Restraining violent, drugged abusive members if the public

(134 Posts)
Sparkling Tue 14-Jul-20 07:24:16

Any ideas how you can safely arrest a drugged up and violent member of the public one of whom could have a knife or weapon. This is part of police life, often the violent person can be physically much larger than the arresting officer. It would be enlightening to the general public as well"

EllanVannin Tue 14-Jul-20 15:49:52

Annie. I feel for you because it makes my blood boil when I read the insane sentencing at some of the most heinous of crimes.
It lets the police down as well for all the work done in tracking down down these criminals, then to see them getting a slap on the wrist.

sodapop Tue 14-Jul-20 15:55:06

If I were EllanVannin it's unlikely I would be carrying a syringe of paraldehyde.

I too worked in a large psychiatric hospital in the early 60s and whilst I am proud of the innovative care provided then things have moved on. I agree not always for the better but we did rely heavily on medication.

tinaf1 Tue 14-Jul-20 15:55:52

Nanna58 as you would probably have more insight than me due to your family member can I ask you are all officers trained and allowed to carry a taser, I may be way off here but surely that would be the fastest way to restrain someone like OP has described

MissAdventure Tue 14-Jul-20 15:56:05

I have no sympathy for them, but it's a matter of human decency.
If police are unable to find some humanity then it's a sorry old world.

paddyanne Tue 14-Jul-20 16:14:02

Police are TRAINED for these situations ,maybe just let them do their job which doesn't include kneeling on anyones neck...not in my part of the world .Oh and for the record my great GF was a policeman who died while at work so I do know and understand how families feel .Training is much more involved and efficient nowadays and even the smallest of the recruits that I see can handle anyone and some of these young women are barely over 5 feet tall.

JenniferEccles Tue 14-Jul-20 16:16:23

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Oopsminty Tue 14-Jul-20 16:38:50

George Floyd hadn't been in trouble with the police for over ten years, JenniferEccles

Chauvin had no idea who he was

I am not on anyone's side

I have friends in the police force and am grateful for them and their colleagues who work to keep us safe

However, what happened to George Floyd was grotesque and I'll not be silenced.

I don't actually blame the other 2 police officers who were involved in this arrest/murder. They were kneeling on his back and legs. They had only been on the job a week. Chauvin was their trainer

One of them actually asked twice if they should roll Floyd on to his back but Chauvin was having none of it.

This same officer went in the ambulance and was attempting CPR

So no. I am not on anyone's side

But this scenario was shocking. To witness the death of a man, no matter how much of a nasty piece of work yoou think he was.

JenniferEccles Tue 14-Jul-20 16:49:51

I did make a point of saying that what happened to Floyd was wrong but that doesn’t alter the fact that his criminal record shows he was perfectly capable of violence.

The original question was how can police effectively restrain criminals who are out of control, possibly under the influence of drugs or alcohol, possibly armed and of a larger, stronger build than the officer.

In cases like that the neck restraint appears to be effective.

Of course it has to be done carefully, but it would be so wrong if all this negative publicity results in it becoming banned.

Galaxy Tue 14-Jul-20 16:55:08

I am 5ft 2, I have restrained young adult males, I have been trained in three types of control and restraint , all restraint in dangerous, that which involves the neck well words fail me. The first thing we were taught is if they say they cant breathe believe them.

JenniferEccles Tue 14-Jul-20 17:00:20

Wouldn’t they all say they couldn’t breathe though Galaxy ?

Then as soon as you loosen your hold they are off, or worse, have you in their control?

Oopsminty Tue 14-Jul-20 17:04:15

Jennifer. Just Google clips of what happened before Floyd was on the ground. Do some research

Had he been violent and resisting arrest it might be different

But he wasn't

Many states in USA have already banned officers from using this tactic.

Galaxy Tue 14-Jul-20 17:05:57

The ones who have died (and young people have died in restraint) all said I cant breathe.

JenniferEccles Tue 14-Jul-20 17:28:37

I have repeatedly stressed that what happened to Floy was wrong. I am not trying to excuse what happened in that particular case but I just feel there shouldn’t be a massive knee jerk reaction by banning the procedure altogether.

Anniebach Tue 14-Jul-20 17:28:54

Are there video clips to all these deaths ?

Galaxy Tue 14-Jul-20 17:38:38

Sorry i am not sure what you are talking about annie.

Galaxy Tue 14-Jul-20 17:40:10

Restraint and control changes all the time jennifer certainly one of the type of restraints I used many years ago is now banned. It's not unusual.

Madgran77 Tue 14-Jul-20 17:52:37

but that doesn’t alter the fact that his criminal record shows he was perfectly capable of violence.

It is STILL completely irrelevant to the actions of the police officer!!

In cases like that the neck restraint appears to be effective.

It killed him! It could kill others if used wrongly! "Effective"????? confused

Of course it has to be done carefully

That is the problem ...slightly the wrong place on the neck and that's it potentially!! Certainly the wrong place for an unnecessarily prolonged period will definitely be it!!!

Anniebach Tue 14-Jul-20 17:54:32

Galaxy you said ‘the ones who have died (and young people
have died in restraint) all said I can’t breath ‘,

I asked if you had video clips of all these people saying ‘I can’t
breath’.

Madgran77 Tue 14-Jul-20 17:58:38

eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/05/29/george-floyd-experts-say-neck-restraint-allowed-minneapolis-can-kill/5274334002/

""Regardless of what Mr. Floyd allegedly did or didn’t do, there’s no reason to put a knee on the neck," said John Peters Jr., president of the Institute for the Prevention and Management of In-Custody Deaths, which trains police academy instructors on use of force."

"Andy Scoogman, executive director of the Minnesota Chiefs of Police, which represents hundreds of police chiefs, called the actions "appalling" and said his association has never advocated for training that teaches an officer to place a knee on someone’s neck."

25Avalon Tue 14-Jul-20 18:01:07

The neck restraint may not have killed him. He had taken drugs and suffered from hypertension. The coroners report says he did not die of asphyxiation.

MissAdventure Tue 14-Jul-20 18:11:00

I have read that he didn't die from the sort of asphyxia associated with being strangled.

I rather thought his death was caused by pressure applied to his chest, his neck, which made breathing impossible when sustained as it was.

trisher Tue 14-Jul-20 18:36:57

Let's put it like this if no-one had knelt on his neck he would most likely be alive today.

phoenix Tue 14-Jul-20 18:45:14

Have I missed something, or has Sparkling not returned since the O.P.? hmm

EllanVannin Tue 14-Jul-20 18:46:05

If anyone can shout that they're not breathing, they're making a good job of not breathing. Anyone who can't breathe, can't speak let alone shout.
Try speaking when your throat's constricted.

GagaJo Tue 14-Jul-20 18:47:04

Ah yes. Floyd must have been lying.