Seems the jihadi bride Shamima Begum might be coming back to stand trial in the U.K.

paddyanne I don't believe she should be allowed back in UK, however, I have NEVER said those underage girls who were abused were "sex workers". Please don't generalise.

gillybob

But how could we ever know she would no longer be a threat kittylester? These people (terrorists) are very good at hiding their dark intentions (often from their own families) .

And she is just the tip of the rotten iceberg .

I couldn't be sure but there are people who are trained to be able to assess that.

Thinking that this young lady should have the right to entry here does not mean I condone what she was allegedly involved with, and does not mean I was not appalled by the Manchester bombings and other such atrocities.

I agree with Lemongrove. She was so young and groomed.

I agree with Lemongrove on all counts.

At 15, she was a child, and not of the legal age of consent or majority. I think she was let down by the UK, who had a duty of care to stop her from being radicalised, and to prevent her from leaving the country for Syria, or wherever it was she went en route to Syria.

As others have said, we don't know what happened out there, but I'm sure it must have been grim in the extreme. She couldn't possibly have had any idea what she was getting into.

FindingNemo - her babies were born (and died) out there, not before she left, so I'm not sure what they have to do with it, other than to make it even more likely that the balance of her mind would have been impacted during pregnancy at her age, and because of losing them all - not to mention the sort of 'lifestyle' that allowed her to get pregnant so soon after giving birth then losing the previous baby. Her hormones and mental state must have been all over the place - have some compassion.

If she had been older, I would still have reservations about stripping people of passports and citizenship, but would have less human sympathy. As it is, a child is not, IMO, capable of a full understanding of the finality of their actions, particularly when she has been groomed and has undergone such a distressing experience.

Finally, even if she comes back and is given UK citizenship, she would still be tried and (probably) found guilty of some sort of terrorist offence, although I don't think it is clear what exactly she has done. In that case, she will be dealt with under UK law, which is the law that people are saying is the one she has broken. That seems like justice to me.

I too agree with lemongrove a decent, measured and unemotional response.

Why do some posters insist on bringing racism into this thread.

Because it's the easiest hook to hang an argument on when there's precious little else to support an opinion.

The people who went to fight in the International Brigade , in the Spanish Civil War were definitely not deluded. The legal government was subjected to a revolt by those who were against the democratic government, ending with the Fascist dictatorship of Franco. I can't see how going to support a legal government has anything to do with ISIS/ DAESH or whatever else we choose to call a loose band of murdering ,torturing , slavers and thugs.
I understand that the Spanish Civil War was a very complicated matter but to compare it with what has happened in the Middle East is really not on , in my book.

I'm with Urmston here.
Not only do we now have the fear of the virus when flying but it will also bring another fear in a couple of years when terrorists and extremists are released from prison. What a way to live !!

Think of those who were killed and maimed in Manchester, one of them being my stepGGD who was there to witness it and has never been the same since. Unforgiveable !
Think of those on that bus in 7/11, killed and maimed.

I hate and detest those involved in terrorism.

Why do some posters insist on bringing racism into this thread. My partner who is part of the BAME community feels she should not come back.
This young woman was 15 when she left and capable of understanding right from wrong. She has shown no remorse, she said beheaded heads in bins do not faze her. I personally think she is not sorry.

growstuff
Who exactly are they ?Try 'whoever the cap fits'

The trauma this young woman has suffered has no doubt created a false reality for her, thoroughly radicalised and telling what happened through the views this has created.
Good point, Pernillavanilla.
This may be a response to the trauma of being groomed when she was a 15 year old child, or it may indeed be the hallmark of someone who is a hardcore terrorist. It is impossible to get inside her head to know if she has an agenda.

I am happy to be corrected on this, but with regards to SB’s radicalisation I thought it was mainly online .

SB was until it was removed a UK citizen.

I agree that the UK has a duty of care for all its citizens, that does include those of us who are classified as the enemy of The Caliphate .

If and when we can be given a guarantee that those returning from their idealistic holy war are not a threat to our society, if they are deemed so they are held in a secure place where they are not given the opportunity to radicalise others. (regardless of race, religion(at birth) or posh sounding name)

Then and only then will the The State be upholding its duty of care to all
Citizens.

Pernilla how about some concern for the Yazidi children she was happy to know were being used as sex slaves, or the fact she was unfazed when seeing a severed head in a bin. Again I ask, if she was a 15 year old boy who had joined IS would everyone be so compassionate and calling for his return? Would you be happy for her to be free to wander around a shopping centre used by you, your children and grandchildren?

I agree with lemon’spost at 8.49. Very well put. I don’t particularly want her back, but I believe the country has a responsibility towards her.

Interesting that so many who think she shouldn't come HOME are the same people who believed that UNDERAGE girls weren't abused but were sex workers .Says more about these "grans" than young girls who were groomed .At 15 I was very naive and most of the girls I knew were too.There was the odd one who believed the" if you love me you'll have sex with me "pleas from boys and who ended up pregnant and in mother and baby homes before adoptions took place.Whats different about this girl? Only that the groomers were political,she was brainwashed..and she has suffered for it.THIS is the only home she has ever known ans we should at least let her come back and be close to her parents and family .Surely thats the "christian" way ?You can hate the sin but NOT the sinner .

Maybe I'm odd but when I look at the old video clip of her and her two friends running away from home to job Islamic state aged 15 I can't see them as anything other than sadly deluded naive schoolgirls. Now two of them are dead and Shamima is only twenty having lost 3 children.
I think they all thought they were off on a great adventure, and i can't put my hand on my heart and say that at that age I might have been equally stupid. Plenty of deluded individuals went of to the Spanish Civil War.
The trauma this young woman has suffered has no doubt created a false reality for her, thoroughly radicalised and telling what happened through the views this has created.
She was owed better protection before leaving. How on earth were she and her friends able to get out of the country, children travelling alone? There will be a price to be paid on her return but the vilification of some;one who has gone through all this is not edifying.

trisher

I notice no-one has actually said who should be responsible for her or how she could be kept securely without returning here. It's astounding that people think we can make ourselves more secure by dumping anyone with possible terrorist connections in areas where unrest and war, which can be laid firmly at our door, could lead to the radicalisation of huge numbers of people.

But, as you pointed out, she was radicalised here.

growstuff We didn’t transport her anywhere; she left of her own accord and it’s nonsense for anyone to suggest she thought she was about to enter Arabian Nights and marry a handsome warrior. She knew what was going on over there and in her own words “I was all right with it”.

I notice no-one has actually said who should be responsible for her or how she could be kept securely without returning here. It's astounding that people think we can make ourselves more secure by dumping anyone with possible terrorist connections in areas where unrest and war, which can be laid firmly at our door, could lead to the radicalisation of huge numbers of people.

I agree with those who say she was only a child herself when she left, vulnerable and misguided.
What concerns me now, however, is her total lack of feeling and her unemotional responses thus far. I would even go as far as saying she doesn't appear very maternal either. It really worries me that she seemed to value the lives of her own babies so little. She lacks appropriate emotion and that is dangerous.
But she is British and we can't not take responsibility.

Maxwell's hearing was via Zoom.

she has become robotic, programmed, brainwashed. Give her a few years of lying low and then see

trisher

Because Zoom is not secure, because internet connections fail, because sometimes there are delays involved, because she is British.

I think that there are secure sites for face to face conference calls.

I cannot see governments round the world not using a secure site for their conference calls.

trisher

Because Zoom is not secure, because internet connections fail, because sometimes there are delays involved, because she is British.

She is not British any longer.

That's the whole point of her appeal