Seems the jihadi bride Shamima Begum might be coming back to stand trial in the U.K.

SB was not academically slow, she was a straight A student with a bright future ahead of her, according to her school reports from Bethnall Green Academy.

Loislovesstewie

I don't consider it to be racism when talking about suspected terrorists who are claiming to be Muslims. Islam is not an ethnicity is it? Anyone can be a Muslim, it is not confined to one race or nationality .

That's right. Islam is a religion (encompassing several different strands and sects, as does Christianity) not a race.

There are many different sects in Syria alone.

Radicalised and of low IQ. Quite a toxic combination. She was ripe for picking.

Mind you the school teachers (or was it social workers) weren’t much better when they handed SB a letter voicing their concerns to her to give to her family. She opened it on the way home and binned it.

Beggars belief. No follow through.

True, Ellieanne but maybe her two accomplices were the brains behind the escape.

Actually I think I read somewhere that she’s a bit slow mentally.
Not slow enough to steal her sisters' passport, to pretend she was off to school that morning as usual and to make her way across Europe.

For everyone who keeps saying ‘she was only a child’. She was fifteen and a half. Another 6 months and she could legally do many things.

Actually I think I read somewhere that she’s a bit slow mentally. That could end up being her best defence yet.

Maybe that’s why she comes across so poorly she’s not quick witted enough to understand how she’s perceived in interviews.

Ah, thanks for clarifying trisher.

Chewbacca Oopsminty suggested that if she had remained in the UK she could have joined the British army after another 6 months. I was pointing out that that had nothing to do with her and that it should be a cause for concern that we still recruit children.

it's not her fault if the British army continue to recruit children against all the advice of the UN, they are the only European country to still do so

What's that got to do with SB joining ISIS? She wasn't recruited by the British Army, Air Force or Navy as far as I'm aware?

I bet you’ll be proven right Chewbacca.
SB was seen stitching explosives into suicide vests. ‘working from home’ just took on a whole new meaning.

Reading through all the posts I’m resigned now to the fact she’s returning. She’s one very lucky woman.

Lisa Smith is an ex Irish soldier who is white, converted to Islam and travelled to join ISIS. Whilst there, she married a fighter, had a daughter and was eventually captured by US forces and taken back to Ireland in December of last year. She was arrested upon arrival and today, although she wears an ankle tag and is subject to curfews and is banned from having internet access, she lives a pretty much free life in Ireland. I imagine a similar fate awaits Ms Begum.

Oopsminty it's not her fault if the British army continue to recruit children against all the advice of the UN, they are the only European country to still do so. And even they recognise the damage done to children and adolescents in particular and do not permit them to enter war zones or fight on the front line until they are 18. Even then there is considerable evidence that they are damaged by the military training they undergo. She was a child, she was groomed and recruited she became a child soldier, she will therefore have considerable damage. If this was another country exposing children to such treatment we would be complaining about it. As it is because she was recruited in the UK we don't want to admit any responsibility and choose instead to blame the victim.

And no. It is nothing to do with her being Muslim. If a white girl had done something similar I'd feel the same. I wouldn't worry about her either.

Can't they just refuse entry when her plane lands?

I'm not going along with this poor girl narrative either

She was 15 + 6 months. In another 6 months she could legally have joined the army, ( with parental permission), she could be married, have children, even be allowed to vote had Labour won the election

I'm not sure what I would do. But I'm not feeling any sympathy for her plight

This debate does all hinge on our attitude to a Muslim girl

No. This debate hinges on a woman who, with free will and cunning, left her family and country to join a proscribed organisation in Syria. She freely admitted to having witnessed atrocities that, for most of us, would turn our stomachs but, for her, she "wasn't fazed." She was an active member of the ISIS morality police which, from what little we know, issued punitive and cruel punishments to any woman who was deemed to be "inappropriately dressed". At interview she confirmed that she had no regrets or remorse for what she was implicated in; a fact that her own father condemned. When asked about the 22 young people who had been murdered in the Manchester Arena bombing, she again had neither sympathy nor contrition.

In short, this woman demonstrated arrogance and zero regret for her actions until it became obvious that her attitude was alienating her still further from the British public, and it was hindering her hopes of returning. She has shown a remorseless, arrogant and calculating disposition which has alienated her from family members.

But, she is no better, and no worse, than all the other people who decided to make a future within ISIS and they have come from all walks of life, all ages, all colours. So be off with your dog whistle tactics and cheap claims of "its only because she's a Muslim with brown skin" nonsense; it's her actions and attitudes that have caused such revulsion, disgust and outrage.

But for all my dislike of this woman, and disgust with all that she's done, she is British and she is our problem and regrettably, we do have to accept her back into the country she reviles and willingly left. Justice must be seen to be done and we cannot shirk our responsibility by leaving our problems for another country to deal with.

Ellianne, its my understanding that the Isis brides were active in the ill treatment meted out to the Yizidi girls and women. I don't know enough to decide whether Shamina Begum was part of that. I hope that if she is arrested, her guilt or otherwise of any involvement in war crimes can be established. That doesn't change my view on the importance of this country acting within the law so far as her right (or otherwise) to citizenship is concerned.

Seems Boris doesn't want her back and Keir Starmer does.
Bye bye Labour at the next GE.

This debate does all hinge on our attitude to a Muslim girl.

To an extent, maybe. Interesting to compare her though with het husband who is a white, middle class Dutch boy and is now a convicted criminal under Dutch law. I'm guessing it has been proven he actually murdered people. We are always led to believe Isis brides stay at home to have babies and aren't involved, but I'm not so sure about that.
The racism bit will inevitably crop up.

urmstongran, this isn't a 'left leaning country' . If it was, we wouldn't have the current government with its huge majority.

The comments here in support of allowing Shamina Begum to challenge the decision to remove her citizenship are from regular posters who could be categorised as left or right leaning. The common agreement is in the rule of law. Which is why the appeal Court concluded that "fairness and justice must outweigh concerns about national security". The Judgement doesn't rule out national security, it states that fairness and justice means we can't simply top it by saying someone poses a threat to national security without due process. Ms Begum may pose a threat to national security. She could well be arrested on an alleged charge the minute she arrives in the UK. Surely that protects us all more than the hundreds of Isis fighters who have quietly returned no one any the wiser.

As for the Manchester bomb. I live in Gtr Manchester. Manchester is my city, one of the young girls who was killed in that bomb lived in the village next to ours. To suggest that those of us who don't join the chorus insisting Ms Begum lost any rights when she made a very dangerous and bad decision at age 15 does not mean we don't share the horror about the Manchester bomb and its victims.

I don't consider it to be racism when talking about suspected terrorists who are claiming to be Muslims. Islam is not an ethnicity is it? Anyone can be a Muslim, it is not confined to one race or nationality .

Someone upthread demanded that we stop ‘going on’ about racism.

No! Racism needs to be called out.

By not ‘going on’ about it you are condoning it. If it makes someone uncomfortable or angry to be called out as a racist then perhaps they should drop their ‘I’m not racist but...’ attitude and honestly examine their conscience.

This debate does all hinge on our attitude to a Muslim girl.

I don't think she will ever be able to live a normal life again. Even if she is not tried and found guilty, she will always be the object of curiosity.
She was groomed, indoctrinated and is now being used by human rights lawyers as a test case.

Callistemon

So what about all the others who did the same, many of whom have returned?
They were older and probably less naive but are living back in the UK.

Begum is more high profile simply because she was only 15 when she left. I am not saying that she is not possibly still dangerous but is she more dangerous than the hundreds of other returnees? They have not lost their citizenship.

A good point.All those who managed to slip quietly back into the UK undetected are in my view, much more dangerous.
If SB returns here, has her citizenship returned to her and lives here, then she will be watched and on the terrorist list all of her life.I don’t know, none of us can know, how she really now feels about IS, the hope is that she will be so relieved to return to normality that she will seek a quiet life.

trisher

I don't find it worrying "natonal security concerns" are just that- concerns. They are not proven threats nor even likely threats. Fairness and justice must outweigh concerns or we live in a society where worrying something might happen is more important than ensuring that people are treated fairly and justice is done.Which could lead to all sorts of abuses. I might for example be concerned about the threat right wing groups represent to democracy but unless I have proof of that threat I shouldn't be able to act against them.

If the Home Office has any sense at all (and assuming the Supreme Court doesn't overturn the court judgment), Begum will be arrested the moment she sets foot on British soil. They'll think up some charge and she'll be kept under supervision without bail. From a pragmatic point of view, she's more of a danger in a refugee camp, where she could organise disaffected people for an attack, even if she can't get to the UK herself.

The law must be paramount.

Sparkling

Would you want to live next door.

Why not?