Teachers more worthy than doctors?

That’s a great blog geekesse
The tweet from Jeremy Vine with the question ‘does it annoy you?’[that teachers are getting a pay rise] is particularly inflammatory.
When people are asked a closed question like that, their instinct is to agree with the question and answer ‘yes’.
He was deliberately inviting a tsunami of negative comments about teachers.
Unfortunately there isn’t an equivalent of the Press Complaints Commission for social media - it’s time there was.

I saw this today - it may be pertinent.
susansenglish.wordpress.com/2020/07/22/why-i-love-an-open-letter-to-the-media-about-teacher-bashing/

Nobody has been given any Covid "reward".

As you are well aware, GPs aren't paid directly by the government. The could award themselves a pay increase by making other cuts in the practice. That's what schools are being forced to do.

Don't vote Tory if you want an NHS treated well.

I totally agree with you growstuff.
In particular I think the way doctors and other medics have been treated during this pandemic is absolutely appalling, and yet their dedication to their patients was shown every single night on the national news. No other profession has given so much or been stretched to their very limits during the pandemic, and that is not to say that many other key workers have worked and given their all, but there is something unique about what the medical profession and NHS workers have done, and I believe it should be recognised, and not by clapping.

On a positive note, my husband and I entered several ‘rewards for our NHS workers’ draws ( for want of a better word) and we managed to win two short breaks for our daughter and her husband, so at least somebody recognised the stress, the dedication, the difficulty, the hard work, the commitment and selfless service that they, along with countless others, displayed through the pandemic.

In my opinion, the NHS is being treated appallingly by this government - and it's not just for the lack of recognition of what staff have faced during the pandemic. We're all on the verge of losing the NHS as we've known it.

If there were something I could do about it, I would.

maddyone

growstuff
You have absolutely never set one profession against another, I know that.
However you did say ‘It’s not my role to be balanced’ which surprised me because I normally think you are fairly well balanced in your comments, so that’s why I said we should recognise good as well as bad, in other words balanced.

The people who have defended teachers are mainly former teachers. If I were to quote those people, I'm sure the reply would be "well, they would say that, wouldn't they?"

I wanted to point out the negativity there has been on this thread. There is loads more on other threads, but my understanding is that it's not good netiquette to quote other threads.

If somebody wants to spend a few minutes of their life trawling through this thread (as I did) to find positive comments from people who aren't former teachers, I'd be the first to thank them.

And indeed you have explained about the pay review bodies very well. As an ex teacher I understand exactly how these pay review bodies work, but undoubtedly there will be others who do not. It is important to recognise that teachers would have received this pay award if Covid19 had never happened, and therefore that this award is not a reward for their work during the crisis. As usual your comments are well grounded in research. The same applies to the doctors pay award, but personally I feel doctors should have been made a special case, and all should have been rewarded for their exceptional service and dedication during this recent pandemic, which has stretched many of them to their absolute limits. And to repeat again, over 500 medics, GPs, and hospital staff died as a direct result of their work.

growstuff
You have absolutely never set one profession against another, I know that.
However you did say ‘It’s not my role to be balanced’ which surprised me because I normally think you are fairly well balanced in your comments, so that’s why I said we should recognise good as well as bad, in other words balanced.

I have tried very patiently to explain why teachers have been awarded a pay rise now, while others, such as nurses and LA staff, are not at an appropriate point in the pay review cycle. The pay rises are not a reward for anything done during the pandemic. I even posted a link to the thinking of the pay reward body, which started deliberating long before there was any lockdown. I have also explained that the pay rises are not funded and will only affect a minority of staff. Like the doctors' pay rise, the whole story hasn't been told.

I am not the only one who has made those points.

maddyone Where have I ever stated that I don't recognise good as well as bad? Or whether I think teachers are "worth" more than any other profession? I have never once tried to set teachers against anybody.

Ellianne
You’re right, the decision to move schools was the best decision for the twins.

growstuff
As an ex teacher I’m very much aware of the ‘teacher bashing’ that has gone on through the years, but seeing all those quotes from Gransnet was quite shocking. But I do believe we should recognise good as well as bad, whether it is teachers, police, nurses or any other profession. Credit where credit is due.

growstuff

lemongrove

growstuff....int he interests of balance why didn’t you also copy out all the comments that said how good their grandchildren's teachers were?

It's not my role to be balanced.

Well.....honest at least!?

vegansrock

I don’t know why so many people are keen for their children to go to school when they are obviously staffed with so many incompetent layabouts. Just keep them at home and teach them yourselves if that’s your opinion.

It's easy peasy. I'm sure many parents have found out for themselves what a doddle it is and what angels their children are. Just think how much money could be saved!

lemongrove

*growstuff*....int he interests of balance why didn’t you also copy out all the comments that said how good their grandchildren's teachers were?

It's not my role to be balanced.

Ellianne

I do think that if people have taken the trouble to express their opinions on this thread they should be replied to in a post individually by name and not all lumped together like a class of retrobates! A good teacher will stop to listen and reflect, rather than come out with hackneyed platitudes like "without teachers there wouldn't be doctors," "or you should try being in a classroom" etc. There have been some interesting contributions, especially from outside the teaching profession, and some differing views. No one is right or wrong in expressing an opinion, they're just saying it as they perceive it to be.

Good post?

I don’t know why so many people are keen for their children to go to school when they are obviously staffed with so many incompetent layabouts. Just keep them at home and teach them yourselves if that’s your opinion.

growstuff....int he interests of balance why didn’t you also copy out all the comments that said how good their grandchildren's teachers were?

I can see both sides as I have family who are doctors and some who are teachers.

I think we all know how hard doctors have worked over the pandemic and I understand how they feel undervalued.

Many teachers have been working hard too and I know their jobs aren't easy.

I don't think anyone can compare professions and say one is more valuable than another. We can't do without doctors or teachers.

So Ellianne, following on from your suggestion a good poster should also stop, reflect and consider before coming out with "hackneyed platitudes" as laid out in Growstuff's helpful list. Then perhaps they would see just how unpleasant some of their replies are.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

I do think that if people have taken the trouble to express their opinions on this thread they should be replied to in a post individually by name and not all lumped together like a class of retrobates! A good teacher will stop to listen and reflect, rather than come out with hackneyed platitudes like "without teachers there wouldn't be doctors," "or you should try being in a classroom" etc. There have been some interesting contributions, especially from outside the teaching profession, and some differing views. No one is right or wrong in expressing an opinion, they're just saying it as they perceive it to be.

No wonder so many young teachers leave the profession early. Not only do they have to put up with the difficulties of being in the classroom these day but then they have the lack of support from the public as reflected in the quotes from Growstuff. ?Some of the posters on this site should be ashamed of themselves for their narrow minded aggressive attitude. In all professions you get the under performers and the wrong doers. So please stop your nastiness and show more support.

Perhapsgrowstuff you could explain why there is a recruitment crisis in teaching and such a high drop out rate? As it’s obviously such a doddle. Also what about all those private businesses putting employees on furlough then claiming money from the government for taking them back when they would have taken them back anyway?

Good post growstuff.
Lemongrove makes a valid point that obviously there are good and bad teachers just as there are good and bad doctors nurses politicians accountants etc BUT as your post shows too many people look at one example and turn it into blanket criticism

Indeed lemongrove!

So, hopefully, comments like the following will be seen in context. All were copied and pasted from a selection on this thread, although there were others on another teacher bashing thread a couple of days ago:

I don't agree with teachers getting a rise at all - the majority of them haven't been at work for months, and now they're off for the 6 weeks holiday

So some of the teachers went to work . Blimey that was so good of them .

My neighbour is an infant teacher and has barely done a stroke of work

Education ? What education ? My DGC haven’t seen a school for almost 5 months .

they haven't had to set foot outside and subject themselves to any dangers at all.

I just wish they could come off their pedestal and stop the superiority.

The teacher next door to me did bugger all for 3 months and boasted to me how little she was doing.

So many who work for the public sector have got far too much power which is why they've got this obnoxious militant stance.

Two teachers I know have had a lovely, relaxing few months hardly no school contact and are now well relaxed for the school holidays. They have had endless beach days and one actually confessed that everything was now done at home and thank goodness to be going away for the holidays or it would be boring !

It's as if they are perceived as some kind of super heroes doing a job for which others apparently don't have the stamina and patience. They keep asking the non teachers to try it and see how hard teaching is. I have done both, and from experience can say teaching is no more difficult than many other jobs which demand full concentration, planning, organisation and self discipline.

They haven't been available to help kids with homework queries because they've been out for a bike ride or at the allotment.

Teachers 13 weeks holiday and only a few were working full time whilst the children were at home.
So some of the teachers worked through the lockdown - so what?

Whether it's 180 or 195 days a week off, that's a lot, isn't it? Wow, far more than any other profession?

Teachers do not know they are born
As an ealybretired teacher I xan assure you many teachers have done very little during Covid.