Time to tackle the rentier economy.

Whatever happens, there MUST be something done about the inequality in this country which definitely adds to the huge division that's so evident and that also has an knock-on effect on all those who are trying so hard to build a future.

It is also the biggest creator of crime, something which governments seem to ignore or turn a blind eye to. People need a head start and they're not receiving this assistance.

Everyone deserves a chance in life !

pen50

I work for a charity which has seen its normal sources of income completely disappear in lockdown. But an appeal to keep us going has raised quite large sums from various members of the rentier class. So whilst I have sympathy with the idea of redistributing their wealth, I'm nevertheless deeply grateful for the fact that a couple of members of the idle rich were able to stick their hands down the back of the sofa and fish out hundreds of thousands for us, with little fuss or form filling. It's a tricky and conflicted state of affairs.

There will be a certain amount of tax relief - whether IT now or IHT later. I'm not intending to decry the generosity of the donors but we could do with a few more.

No one seems to have mentioned inheritance tax. We paid 40% on everything over £300+ when both sets of parents died. As the remainder was shared between 10-12 each time it wasn’t a fortune. This was on top of £78, ooo a year care home fees for parent with Alzheimer’s and vascular dementia. How come if you get cancer treatment is free but Alzheimer’s will often cost You your house and savings.

Fennel

*growstuff * - I didn't really know what rentier means, just guessed renter (wrong).
I've looked it up and it means annuitant ie receiving an annual income from an earlier investment.
Which could also include people like me who paid into a local govt. pension scheme while I was working, and now retired have a LG pension.
Until the investments that the Council made with my money stop giving returns.

Strictly speaking, yes, but in practice, no. You've paid for your pension. There are people who live of interest and rent for the whole of their lives, often because they've inherited it.

We have (or have had in the recent past) a situation where people can make more money from the appreciation on property prices than the vast majority of people can earn from going out to work. At one time it was possible to get mortgages with very little deposit. Inequality is compounded by inherited wealth and investment in property diverts money from investing in production.

Sueki44

No one seems to have mentioned inheritance tax. We paid 40% on everything over £300+ when both sets of parents died. As the remainder was shared between 10-12 each time it wasn’t a fortune. This was on top of £78, ooo a year care home fees for parent with Alzheimer’s and vascular dementia. How come if you get cancer treatment is free but Alzheimer’s will often cost You your house and savings.

It won't cost you anything. It will cost the people who won't inherit.

Maybe people shouldn't expect to inherit anything. Many don't get anything.

I think that it’s human nature to want to leave something to your children...no matter how little. Many old people will live quite frugally to be able to do this.

Sueki44

No one seems to have mentioned inheritance tax. We paid 40% on everything over £300+ when both sets of parents died. As the remainder was shared between 10-12 each time it wasn’t a fortune. This was on top of £78, ooo a year care home fees for parent with Alzheimer’s and vascular dementia. How come if you get cancer treatment is free but Alzheimer’s will often cost You your house and savings.

I agree it is terribly unfair that Alzheimer’s, Vascular Dementia and Dementia are treated totally differently to other terminal diseases.

I feel very strongly that what DH has accrued through hard work (and yes I know lots of people work hard for very little return) should be inherited by our children not the government of the day.

He (we) have paid all taxes on the business along with personal taxes on income, investments and pensions, and when we die we get taxed on that!!!!

No, you don't get taxed when you die. Your children do. Why are they more deserving than children whose parents didn't have any money?

The government doesn't inherit any money. The government has no money. It's wealth which is redistributed amongst the people living in the country.

It's not you who are being taxed, GG13, it's your heirs. They are being taxed on money that they haven't 'earned'.

Anyway, as savvy business people don't you have it all tied up in trusts for them?

Anyway, as savvy business people don’t you have it all tied up in trust funds for them?

MaizieD I shall not give you any ammunition on that front?

growstuff

The government doesn't inherit any money. The government has no money. It's wealth which is redistributed amongst the people living in the country.

Yes but it is wealth we have accrued and it should go to those we choose not the government of the day!!

* Not the people that the government of the day decide!

GrannyGravy13

growstuff

The government doesn't inherit any money. The government has no money. It's wealth which is redistributed amongst the people living in the country.

Yes but it is wealth we have accrued and it should go to those we choose not the government of the day!!

Why? You've had use of the money while you're alive. It's not yours to control when you're dead.

GrannyGravy13

* Not the people that the government of the day decide!

Why not? Don't you believe in dmocracy?

*democracy

growstuff

Why you’ve had use of the money while your alive. It’s not yours to control when your dead

No it’s whoever I bequeath it to to spend/invest as they see fit, not the Government of the day. As often pointed out by several posters on the political threads the government hasn’t got any money of its own, so it doesn’t need mine!

I could of course spend every last penny and let the State take care of me in my twilight years?

I am somewhat amused by the assertion up thread that we are a country with "a tradition of home ownership" . I think you'll find that home ownership, except among the upper and upper middle class, is a relatively new trend.
Until WW2 it was very rare for the working and lower middle classes to own their own home and in the middle middle stratum it was about 50/50.
I am reminded of a line from, "Brief Encounter" where one very middle class female characer remarks to another (and they all seem to employ cook/housekeepers) "I'd been to see Bob's solicitor about renewing the lease on the house".
I think we're just moving back a century with regards to home ownership.

GrannyGravy13

growstuff

Why you’ve had use of the money while your alive. It’s not yours to control when your dead

No it’s whoever I bequeath it to to spend/invest as they see fit, not the Government of the day. As often pointed out by several posters on the political threads the government hasn’t got any money of its own, so it doesn’t need mine!

I could of course spend every last penny and let the State take care of me in my twilight years?

You could! Maybe you should!

Why do your children deserve any more money than those whose parents don't have any?

It really is only your money while you're alive. It should go back into the mythical "pot" when you have no further use of it.

This is the root cause of inequality, not because some people are more/less deserving than others.

NoddingGanGan

I am somewhat amused by the assertion up thread that we are a country with "a tradition of home ownership" . I think you'll find that home ownership, except among the upper and upper middle class, is a relatively new trend.
Until WW2 it was very rare for the working and lower middle classes to own their own home and in the middle middle stratum it was about 50/50.
I am reminded of a line from, "Brief Encounter" where one very middle class female characer remarks to another (and they all seem to employ cook/housekeepers) "I'd been to see Bob's solicitor about renewing the lease on the house".
I think we're just moving back a century with regards to home ownership.

We're also moving back a century - and more - on equality.

Inheritance makes nonsense of any idea of meritocracy and any arguments that poverty is caused by laziness and fecklessness are blown out of the water.

growstuff

Inheritance makes nonsense of any idea of meritocracy and any arguments that poverty is caused by laziness and fecklessness are blown out of the water.

Many people with very little strive to leave something for their children or grandchildren. Should they be denied that privilege?

I have not seen any comments on this thread accusing people of being lazy or feckless

You could argue that there is little point building up a business, buying a home or saving if on your death it is dissipated into the ether.

GrannyGravy13

Sueki44

No one seems to have mentioned inheritance tax. We paid 40% on everything over £300+ when both sets of parents died. As the remainder was shared between 10-12 each time it wasn’t a fortune. This was on top of £78, ooo a year care home fees for parent with Alzheimer’s and vascular dementia. How come if you get cancer treatment is free but Alzheimer’s will often cost You your house and savings.

I agree it is terribly unfair that Alzheimer’s, Vascular Dementia and Dementia are treated totally differently to other terminal diseases.

I feel very strongly that what DH has accrued through hard work (and yes I know lots of people work hard for very little return) should be inherited by our children not the government of the day.

He (we) have paid all taxes on the business along with personal taxes on income, investments and pensions, and when we die we get taxed on that!!!!

The level of our income tax is quite low compared with some other European countries and that is one reason why people are able to accrue wealth. IHT is a better solution in some ways because it is taken from your estate and so won't affect you, rather than you having a larger income to spend or save as you see fit.

Furthermore, for most people of our age their wealth comes from an increase in property values. We could have be an example in that we bought a house in South London for £18,500 in 1979. it was a wreck and we did it up ourselves so the final cost was probably about £29,000. Had we stayed in that house we would now own property worth around £1,250,000. That increase has nothing to do with our cleverness, or nouse or whatever you'd like to call it.

We're not an example however, because we moved to Suffolk and from there to France. In the former prices are a long way behind London and in the case of the latter, prices have stagnated.