Rape convictions fall to a record low in England and Wales. Dame Vera Baird said in her annual report "what we are witnessing is the de-criminalisation of rape"

I won’t go into detail, but I do know of one person who reported rape falsely and knowingly, in order to cause harm to the person she accused. Thankfully he was found not guilty very quickly, but the distress caused to him and his family at the time and after was enormous.

There is a problem here. Often the public think rape means a stranger attacks a woman and forces her to have sex with him, often using violence which leaves clear evidence. But this isn’t true of the majority of rapes. Most rapes are perpetrated by a man already known to the woman. This makes it extremely difficult to convict. Often there is no violence so little evidence. There are undoubtedly men who rape, and there are also undoubtedly women who cry rape falsely. One person’s word against another. Little or no tangible evidence. I wouldn’t want to be on the jury in such cases.

I don’t know whether I’d report it if I was raped. If I was attacked and raped by a stranger I’d certainly report it. If on the other hand, I was raped by someone I knew, and I felt my own behaviour had put me into an uncompromising position, then I don’t know. I really don’t know what I would do.

I do know that I would never cry rape if I had agreed to sex, but regretted it afterwards.

Rape is such a hard crime to prove. Nightmare for the woman. Having to give evidence in court is harrowing.

I too sat on a rape case as a member of the jury. It became quite apparent that the boy wasn't guilty. We were listening to this evidence then shown CCTV of the pair of them

We went and sat in the Jury room to discuss. One woman was adamant he was guilty. Nobody agreed.

I felt very sorry for the girl as she stressed she didn't think she'd been raped but a teachers had told her she had been ,and then, on the third day, the Judge called a halt to proceedings and directed us to find him Not Guilty.

Cases like that should never have made it to court. Many others should.

I imagine this might not go down well here but in USA don't they have different levels of rape?

So a girl going out on a date with a boyfriend ends up being raped. Date Rape. A hideous crime

But we hear of men attacking 76 year olds in graveyards as they tend their husband's grave. And there was one case where a man broke into old people's home and raped women who were suffering advanced stage of dementia. Would these cases get a more severe sentence?

As has been said it's a very difficult trial to take part in. Many women won't bother due to the fact they think nobody will believe them. That needs addressing.

I think the days of commenting on what the victim was wearing are all but over now.

But it usually end up being his word against hers and in many cases there is reasonable doubt. So no convictions

Very sad and something we'd hope can be improved on in future

I can't believe what I have just read, Watermelon.

So-called 'promiscuity' does not mean that non-consensual sex is anything other than rape. Attitudes like this suggest that a woman's worth is connected to her virginity, and this in turn suggests that she is worth less if she is not 'pure', which begs the question 'worth less to whom?' To a prospective husband? To the father who will have to keep her until a suitable man comes along? These attitudes are anachronistic to say the least, not to mention misogynist.

University campuses in my area have done some excellent work on the subject of consent. To my mind, this should be an integral part of sex Ed at secondary schools and parents too.
The fact that there are such antiquated views around what makes sex consensual in this day and age disgusts me.
False accusations of sexual violence account for around 4% of reports and within that statistic are those which have been “unfounded”, so not necessarily false but perhaps without enough evidence or victim co-operation to continue. Additionally this stat is in line with any other crime, so happens no more regularly when it’s a sexual crime.

Excellent news Galaxy.

Oh they have just announced a judicial review into CPS rape policy. Such good news. Brilliant women who campaigned for this.

I am so sorry that happened to you gagajo.
I think there needs to be work done about the nonsense people believe about rape. The way people expect victims behave. I think only people who have been through it can understand.

You'd have to have nerves of steel tho, Urmstongran. And know that it was about 98% likely you'd be dragged through the dirt for nothing. If nothing else proves the lack of equal rights for women, this area does.

India has the most horrendous cases. If we stop reporting cases in the U.K., we become complicit.

watermeadow

The great difficulty in rape trials has always been that it’s her word against his. Now, when most people are casual and promiscuous about sex, rape is not the big deal it was 100 years ago.
I was a juror in a rape trial where we found the 3 men not guilty because the girl had happily engaged in sex with them all then changed her mind.
No, I wouldn’t report a rape by someone I knew if I’d suffered no real harm.

Rape is always a big deal. Sex workers who willingly sell sex are traumatized by rape.

Rape isn't about sex. It's about power. Taking someone else's power.

It makes no difference if someone has willingly had sex with someone. If they later have non consensual sex, it's rape.

I was attacked 35 years ago, but fought him off. On another occasion, I gave in and allowed sex because I would have been raped if not. If these events were no big deal, why are the burnt into my memory?

And no, I didn't report it then and wouldn't report it now. Why would anyone when they know the chances of conviction are almost non-existent?

I find it impossible to understand how any woman could envision a rape in which she suffered no real harm.
Isn’t that an oxymoron?

No, I wouldn’t report a rape by someone I knew if I’d suffered no real harm.

I am lost for words.

B9exchange thanks for your post. I cross posted with you and have only just read of your experience. I understand your reluctance to report then. I share your concern about the fact that these days, mobile phones are removed from alleged victims with every text and other exchange poured over by the defence council who will be looking for anyway to discredit the alleged victim.
Galaxy, I understand why you say you wouldn't report.
Kadinsky - why is it so difficult to prove? I'm not disagreeing with you just feeling we seem to be going backwards in offering little support to victims.

It does feel as though rape is being de-criminalised.
If women have no confidence in the system, they won't report which is what Galaxy is saying. It feels like two steps forward, ten back. The Police teams now specialise, they are well trained. However there are claims that the austerity agenda has reduced police/cps time, along with the huge increase in workload due to digital downloads from the mobiles of alleged victims and defendants.
Investigations are ongoing in attempts to improve the situation.
Women Rights organisations are actively campaigning.

It’s so difficult to prove, that’s the problem.

Under no circumstances would I press charges. For what purpose? The conviction rate is beyond words and there might be people like watermeadow on the jury.

Iam64, purposely misconstrued as per.

Many of these cases are complex and few are always black and white. I happen to read cases properly before I come to any conclusion. I'm not bias towards either male or female.

I would say that re-training is needed by the police on their approach to such cases in making it easier for the woman to come forward/ report incidents of this nature. It's usually their lack of evidence which lets the abused down when such a case goes to court.

The sooner these horrendous crimes are reported the quicker the action taken. Women can always ask for a female officer. Women must press charges.

Domestic abuse is another area of crime that goes unnoticed with few prosecutions toward the monstrous husband/partner. Again, women/men must press charges or the case goes nowhere.

This was reported in depth on the world at One today.

The problem seems to lie with the Crown Prosecution Service.

A woman was talking about her experiences of being beaten & raped by someone with whom she was in the early days of a relationship (her description).

She had nothing but praise for the police.
It transpired that her attacker had previous convictions for violence against women.
However, the CPS decided against bringing a prosecution, (I think) it was something to do with her exchanging texts/phone calls with her attacker after the assault.
It makes no sense to me.

EllanVannin, no dispute about the case you mention.
That one case in now way justifies the low number of prosecutions leading to conviction. Your post suggests that you believe many of those complainants were making false allegations. Is that what you meant ?

I suffered an attempted rape and murder many years ago, he was drunk fortunately, so couldn't complete either. But I never reported it. He was an (ex) boyfriend and I would have faced destruction in the witness box, and I suspect very little sympathy, even from my father, I told no-one until having a conversation on self defence with my teenage daughter.

Girls handing over their phones often lose them for months, even years, whilst every text is given to the defence counsel. So I would not report it even if it happened today.

I'm mixed here because I remember the case of Liam Allen, a student who'd been accused of rape. The young man went through Hell to clear his name after a cop had hidden 40,000 texts from the accuser. The cop hadn't thought it was relevant in the case ?!
Liam thought he was going to spend many years in prison.
The prosecution then accused the police of sheer incompetence. An apology in this case and those like them isn't enough.

The Secret Barrister was talking about rape on Channel 4 News last week. One of the problems has been the police requests for the mobile phones of the victims. They often want to go back several years of a victim's calls and, when the victim refuses, they drop the cases.

watermeadow What evidence do you have that most people are casual and promiscuous about sex now? And did you know that husbands commit rape sometimes?

So watermeadow I take it you never told your daughter that it doesn't matter WHEN you say no..it should always be heeded ? No means NO ,especially in circumstances where the victim may have been cajoled or coerced into taking part in the frst instance.People like you shouldn't be ON juries!

There were 58,657 reports of rape in 2018-19 but only 833 convictions. Gosh Iam64 that is a horrendous statistic.

Yes I would at any age report rape, it is worse than assault.

I also think that in this day and age those who do report it are very brave, they often suffer character assassination on top of the trauma of the actual crime.

The key issue is Vera Baird's belief that we are witnessing the decriminalisation of rape.
I can't agree that rape is somehow less of " a big deal" than it was 100 years ago.
Talk to victims and the extent of 'real harm' becomes clear.