Response to new covid measures - old v young; left v right

The UK seems to be getting more and more like the USA where it is all about the individual - every man for himself. The weakest go to the wall.

What a contrast with countries like Finland, New Zealand and South Korea where there is a strong sense of community and people do the right thing, not only to protect themselves, but to protect each other.

I doubt many of those who have not been self-distancing on the beaches, in the streets drinking, etc, care too much about politics of any persuasion.

Libertarianism: possibly defined as a right wing philosophy.
As opposed to authoritarianism.

It is a moot point which is a better philosophy.

Dinahmo...look at your wording in the OP, you say ‘from my reading of many of the threads on here it does seem as if those opposed to the introduction of new measures tend to be from the right of centre.’
Which threads and which posts? How do you know if a poster is ‘right of centre’.I think this is all in your own mind.
Am not talking about anything going on in other
countries, or on twitter etc but just what you have written about Gransnet.Does blaming any ( who you think) is on the political right fit with your agenda?
If you write something so sweeping, then expect to be called out on it.
All I see is that it has zilch to do with left or right wing politics but all to do with selfishness if a person isn’t prepared to do social distancing or wear a face mask.

I was not rude.
If you want to understand rudeness then look at some other threads or on Twitter.

Perhaps they're all Welsh.

Yes, there is every need.

Callistemon

He is appointed by the Welsh Government. I do not know if they quizzed him on his politics before appointing him

I could email one of my AMs and ask.

It just does not fit in with the OP, though, does it.
As for France, perhaps Liberté is important to them.

It's anecdotal at best and shows somebody who couldn't make his mind up. there's really no need to be so rude about those who didn't think your point was relevant.

It doesn't negate the general point that not wearing face masks has become a right wing, libertarian issue. They've been called "muzzles" in both the Mail and Express, Peter Hutchens has called them face nappies and then there's Ann Widdecombe!

I don’t think old/young or left/right matter at all, those that see themselves as vulnerable should take precautions regardless of what others do.

This Virus is behaving very unpredictably, some of those diagnosed with Covid 19 have not developed antibodies, so what hope is there for a reliable vaccine anytime soon. At least we are now up to speed with PPE and know that avoiding large groups and social distancing is a good idea.

I made a point, it does not fit in with some pre-conceived ideas that some posters have so I will leave it there.

I have explained more than once, if you do not understand that is not my problem.

Callistemon

I think the pronouncements in the OP are built on sifting sand.

Where is the evidence that BAME protestors in the streets, not self-distancing, were right wing?

The only common fact stated in the OP about the latest protestors is that they are young. Other groups who protest abut liberties will jump on this band wagon as these groups always do.

If you are referring to me I did not say that the protesters in Germany were young. I listed the different groups that were likely to be protesting. (2nd paragraph) So - right v left. No mention of BAME protestors from me, nor any of other protestors.

I then went on to talk about the French figures where there has been a large increase in confirmed cases of covid amongst the young. etc etc etc. So old v young.

Thousands of people who have had symptoms haven't been recorded because their symptoms were mild or not sufficiently bad for them to go to hospital. The daughter of a friend had symptoms and waited in A & E for 5 hours and then decided to leave. She stuck it out at home. That is all I know about her case.

At one crowded pub last week end apparently 10 people tested positive. The new incidents in France have occurred where there were large family and/or private gatherings and large gatherings in public places.

I think I have more important things to do.

He is appointed by the Welsh Government. I do not know if they quizzed him on his politics before appointing him

I could email one of my AMs and ask.

It just does not fit in with the OP, though, does it.
As for France, perhaps Liberté is important to them.

Callistemon

Why anti-maskers being vilified for what posters are terming their ideology (presumably right-wing ideology) when one CMO in the UK pronounces that the science does not really support the wearing of masks?

I'm sorry that does not fit the criteria of your OP but there it is.

For the record, I shall wear one whatever he says.

I think you need to look at what's flying around social media to see what's being said and the ideology of some people. There definitely is an argument being put forward that they are an intrusion on civil liberty and it's coming from libertarians, who support a whole raft of other beliefs.

Dinahmo

Callistemon

growstuff

So what's the ideology of an anti-masker?

I don't know.

Posters seem to have ignored my post above, yesterday 22:32:55, because, presumably, it doesn't fit in with the ideology.

Nothing to do with ideology. You quoted what the Chief Medical officer said so what's more to be said?

I didn't respond to it at the time because all it seems to show is that the Welsh government can't make up its mind. Nothing to do with the ideology of those who claim masks are an intrusion on civil liberty.

Why anti-maskers being vilified for what posters are terming their ideology (presumably right-wing ideology) when one CMO in the UK pronounces that the science does not really support the wearing of masks?

I'm sorry that does not fit the criteria of your OP but there it is.

For the record, I shall wear one whatever he says.

Callistemon

PS the Welsh Government is Labour, so presumably left.

The Chief Medical Officer is presumably not a political appointment.

I was asked a question by another poster
I replied to that question

Why are you nitpicking asking?

Callistemon

growstuff

So what's the ideology of an anti-masker?

I don't know.

Posters seem to have ignored my post above, yesterday 22:32:55, because, presumably, it doesn't fit in with the ideology.

Nothing to do with ideology. You quoted what the Chief Medical officer said so what's more to be said?

Twitter is good to follow some serious people whose views are interesting and I respect. How else would I ever have "conversations" with such people?

It's also interesting to watch a topic like "masks". It's obvious that many posters are trolls. They create multiple accounts and write extreme comments supporting a particular point of view. There are others who do have more personal details and you can look at their profiles and scroll through their last few posts to see what they support.

I don't for one moment think that these posters are representative, but it does show the strength of feeling for some issues. There must be thousands of "anti mask" posts, most of which use the same kind of language and slogans.

varian

I seldom look at twitter, and certainly don't tweet myself. I just thought that right wingers tend to be pro-brexit, rather than anti-brexit, and that might have been what growstuff meant.

It was. Ooops! My typo.

I agree with geekesse. Twitter is great. You can choose exactly who you wish to 'follow'; you really don't have to go near the murky bits (though the occasional foray is a good reminder that not everyone is lovely and that some people have very twisted beliefs).

@Lucca

The anti vax movement seems to have started, or at least received huge impetus, after a study (now discredited and withdrawn) by one Andrew Wakefield who claimed that infant vaccination for MMR caused autism.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Wakefield

It is very worrying because herd immunity depends on a high percentage of the population being vaccinated. If there ever is a vaccine for covid too many anti-vaxers causing a low take up could well render it less effective in achieving herd immunity.

I seldom look at twitter, and certainly don't tweet myself. I just thought that right wingers tend to be pro-brexit, rather than anti-brexit, and that might have been what growstuff meant.

varian

Is it not the right wing PRO-brexit trolls who are out in force on Twitter, growstuff?

Goodness, no! Every shade of political and social opinion is out in force on Twitter. The trick is to choose to follow a range - some people you broadly agree with, some you broadly disagree with, a few national and international public figures, even celebrities if you like that sort of thing. You can also follow topics or trends and pick up people to follow from those. I use it mainly for professional tips, following others in my areas of interest who often link to resources, professional development stuff and news. Donald Trump’s account provides my daily entertainment, and I follow the Secret Barrister because I am also interested in the law. The great joy of Twitter is that anything that is said is limited to 280 characters, so tweets are brief and often very witty.

maddyone

Lucca
I think the anti vaccine belief comes from fear of it not being safe. Not tested enough, or not tested widely enough. Or it being rushed through. That’s what I think, but I can’t say definitively because I’m champing at the bit for a vaccine.

The anti maskers, I have no idea. Personal liberty?? Well the personal liberty to catch Covid19 and end up on a ventilator. If they don’t like wearing a mask, I can’t see how they’d like being on a ventilator.

Thank you. Well then they should register as “anti vaccine “ and not get it when it is available giving the rest of us priority.!

geekesse

How about this?

Brilliant!