Is morality something you expect of others?

Nothing is stopping you having your say, but as a parent I am also free to ignore it and say I dont agree with it.

Fortunately Galaxy most parents in the UK are agreeing with it, but it’s a free country to have our opinions differ.

Not only is it not in the plan, but it has been categorically rejected, despite the request by Ann Longfield, the Children's Commissioner.

I don't think the government can be criticised for wanting to send any children back to school, but in the case of secondary pupils in particular it needs to look realistically at the risks and mitigate them.

I have a hunch it does know how risky it would be and knows damned well it won't happen, but it can't be seen to be at fault for its rubbish test and trace system, so it's looking to blame the public - anybody, just so long as it's not them.

Gavin Williamson's interview on R4 this morning was excrutiating. I honestly don't know how anybody can lie so blatantly.

lemongrove

Fortunately Galaxy most parents in the UK are agreeing with it, but it’s a free country to have our opinions differ.

Source please? Most parents most definitely do not seem to be agreeing - not the parents in local Facebook groups or on many other social media groups.

I can find suggestions about how this could be managed but none saying new ideas are not welcome.
I think describing comments as ridiculous might come very close to a poster feeling their ideas are unwelcome, trisher.

Of course schools will have to try and mitigate the risks, everything about this virus tells us it will be here for a long time but we have to continue at least trying to get life back to a sort of normality, especially when it comes to the children.
Nobody knows if there will be a surge in the virus numbers if all schools are back, but we do know how badly both children of all ages and parents too, will suffer being stuck at home, with for some, little or no education.
It has to be attempted.

My children are not done sort of experiment, especially considering how poorly this country has done in the management of the pandemic. I would be delighted for my child to return to school in New Zealand for example.

No lemongrove I don't claim to be the font of all knowledge on teaching or schools. I know very little about the organisation of primary schools, despite having had children go through them.

However, I do know more than a little about the logistics of secondary schools. In a former life I was a middle manager in a large comprehensive school and was responsible for organising things like timetabling, rooming, staffing, cover for absent staff, etc. It was my job, so I can see issues which even some in schools couldn't see.

I wouldn't dream of telling anybody how to organise any other workplace, so I do take exception when somebody persists in telling me how magical solutions could be found, when I know very well what's possible and what the risks are.

I've already given some suggestions and said what I think will happen. I'm still in touch with various senior staff working in secondary schools and I read what others, such as the DfE, unions, scientists, etc are writing.

I could be wrong. Maybe the government really will try and bluff it out. A lot could happen in the next three weeks.

lemongrove

Of course schools will have to try and mitigate the risks, everything about this virus tells us it will be here for a long time but we have to continue at least trying to get life back to a sort of normality, especially when it comes to the children.
Nobody knows if there will be a surge in the virus numbers if all schools are back, but we do know how badly both children of all ages and parents too, will suffer being stuck at home, with for some, little or no education.
It has to be attempted.

What's an acceptable cost?

Well this thread has certainly attracted a lot of comments ! Boris is dishonest in both his private and public roles, I wouldn’t trust him with a thing. An expert at telling people what they want to hear, with no sincerity whatsoever.

Ellianne

^I can find suggestions about how this could be managed but none saying new ideas are not welcome.^
I think describing comments as ridiculous might come very close to a poster feeling their ideas are unwelcome, trisher.

Not unwelcome, just ridiculous.

wow!

The know all attitudes of a few ( thankfully) posters are off putting for new posters to want to comment ,and tedious for those who have tried to put the other side of the argument.
So, no point really in commenting further, it will tail off after becoming an echo chamber for those who prefer schools to
Stay closed for a long long time because of course, they are the only ones who have any understanding of the situation ( in their eyes.)

I do not think anyone here is saying that they would "prefer schools to stay closed for a long time." I have not seen that anywhere. It is a distortion/extrapolation of posts from those who are trying to inject some realism into the task ahead. I do not think the goal is in dispute.

The "other side of the argument" has been understood. The "know it alls" know how important it is that pupils return to school. They also know that there are issues which need to be addressed and shrugging shoulders and pretending they don't exist won't work.

I hadn't spotted any posters on this thread who want schools to stay closed for a long time, so I haven't a clue what you're on about.

Should anybody wish to discuss managing a supermarket, being a nurse or driving a forklift, I'm sure I'd be interested but I'm afraid I wouldn't have anything to contribute.

lemon No one on this thread has said schools should stay closed either temporarily or permanently, only that they should open safely, protecting pupils and staff. That is the really "moral" way to do it, but the fact is more flexibility will be needed and more money would certainly help. It seems unlikely this government will supply either and so we lurch towards a disorganised opening where risks will just be ignored and schools may close more quickly than they opened. It's the usual standard of organisation we have come to expect from this government, which has already cost lives and may well cost more.

Trisher: Anything for a cheap swipe at Boris Johnson? Rather pathetic.

Really trisher ? Really ?!
It has been one long diatribe against the schools going back in September.Qualifying what has been said now by saying that ‘they should open safely protecting pupils and staff’ is simply a cop out, because of course that is what they will try to do in any case.Nothing can be guaranteed, just as nothing can in other areas of working life....we have to live with the virus until there is a successful vaccine.
Therefore schools must be open for all pupils in September.

Funny how these pronouncements from the P.M. follow reports of incompetence or possible corrupt dealings in the government...e.g.
dubious contracts for face masks that didn't work, Jenrick's faux pas, donations from from developers coming to light , contracts handed to companies with contacts to Cummings , nominations for House of Lords , refusal to withdraw Whip from Tory M.P.and so on. Does no one else think these are diversion tactics ?
I see the children's tsar , Anne Longfield has called for regular testing for children and staff ;turned down by Nick Gibb. I thought our testing system was world beating. Does he not know that quite a large number of the school population could be classed as adult .Look at the numbers in 6th forms.











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Ellianne says ^ All I know is that if the government is happy for schools to reopen, I am reassured.^

That's the nub of this debate really, isn't it?

Many people have judged the government on its handling of the whole pandemic crisis and have found it badly wanting. They're not prepared to blindly trust it at all.

westend oh for gawd’s sake!
Just when I thought comments couldn’t get any worse.

To answer the basic question: I would like to be able to expect good moral and ethical conduct from everyone.

However, in the world we live in that would be dreadfullly naive of me, as a lot of people are neither moral nor ethical.

I try to lead a moral and ethical life myself, and to influence family to do so too.

Apparently, we can no longer expect people in public office to adhere to the standards we were brought up to.

Apart from refusing to vote for them again, there is not much we can do about it. And that is only any use if we did vote for them.

We can complain, write letters to the newspapers or write a blog. I suppose it might do some good.

Johnson probably meant "the Government" when he said "we", but the remark sounds odd coming from someone who neither in his public nor private life seems very moral.

Nice to know he can actually recognise a moral obligation, though.

The arrogance of some in the Education Establishment in dismissing all other comments and ideas from anyone beyond of that establishment is beyond belief.

We mere mortals know nothing so should not in any way dare to comment. ???

And there we find the crux of the problem without a shadow of a doubt.??

west end girl:well said. Pretty much sums it up.

Granddad - I am very happy to hear your concrete plans for schools.