Is morality something you expect of others?

I think you'll find that the overwhelming majority of the public isn't in favour of what Johnson said. He couched it in those terms to undermine Starmer and to soften up the public for locking down pubs and other places of entertainment in the near future.

This is the government's "modus operandi". They make some pronouncement on a Sunday, gauge public opinion and the do a U turn later in the week. Meanwhile, it tries to escape responsibility for making decisions.

Johnson (and anybody with an ounce of common sense) realises that forcing millions of potential spreaders into environments where conditions for transmission are optimal, would be lunacy and result in the whole country going back into lockdown in double quick time.

Meanwhile, headteachers are making contingency plans for arrangements which could actually work.

Oh, I see, us mere mortals must never make any comment of the education profession as we understand nothing in regard to the learning of our children and grandchildren.

However, we know what we witness, and that is many children have received almost nothing or very little from their schools throughout the closure, and that now must end.

The government are articulating the above with overwhelming public backing. The teachers need to take that as a warning, without a doubt.

Oh, I see, us mere mortals must never make any comment of the education profession as we understand nothing in regard to the learning of our children and grandchildren

Yes Grandad1943 you got it in one paragraph.

gillybob

^Oh, I see, us mere mortals must never make any comment of the education profession as we understand nothing in regard to the learning of our children and grandchildren^

Yes Grandad1943 you got it in one paragraph.

gillyBob, ???

I have two school age children so presumably I am allowed to say that I think the suggestions on this thread are nonsensical and if my school had included them in their risk assessment I wouldn't have been comfortable sending my child back to school.

Unless we keep children at home indefinitely, they have to go back to school, just look how happy they are when they do. They need to go back, For education but as importantly, their mental health. in my opinion they should all have gone back earlier. We have to live with this pandemic, not stop living. I am vulnerable, I know that, but these youngsters haven’t had our chances and they usually do bounce back from things. Trisher, you are talking about his chequered family life, perhaps this time he has it right. How many of us have married or had relationships more than once? He could be a brilliant father, we don’t know, I don’t judge until I know all the facts.

gillybob

^Oh, I see, us mere mortals must never make any comment of the education profession as we understand nothing in regard to the learning of our children and grandchildren^

Yes Grandad1943 you got it in one paragraph.

Not at all! But Grandad has shown repeatedly that he really doesn't have a grasp of reality as far as schools are concerned.

Grandadand gillybob, please don't view yourselves as lesser mortals. You have as much status in society as those from other walks of life. The ability to get the country back on its feet has been due to so many sensible, hardworking people. The word "professional" has taken on a new meaning.
Teachers themselves will be working in one of the lowest risk areas, they must be longing to get back and do the job they were trained to do. After 6 months of planning and consultation, it is time to roll up the sleeves and give of one's best.

Sparkling

Unless we keep children at home indefinitely, they have to go back to school, just look how happy they are when they do. They need to go back, For education but as importantly, their mental health. in my opinion they should all have gone back earlier. We have to live with this pandemic, not stop living. I am vulnerable, I know that, but these youngsters haven’t had our chances and they usually do bounce back from things. Trisher, you are talking about his chequered family life, perhaps this time he has it right. How many of us have married or had relationships more than once? He could be a brilliant father, we don’t know, I don’t judge until I know all the facts.

Yes, they could go back on a rota system combined with distance learning, so that there could be social distancing. The reality is that releasing millions of spreaders into the community is going to be a disaster. No amount of pontificating or eulogising about happy children will provide schools with a magic wand.

PS. I hope Gavin Williamson doesn't try to sit down today because his pants must surely be on fire! He must want to keep his job in the cabinet very much.

Ellianne

*Grandad*and gillybob, please don't view yourselves as lesser mortals. You have as much status in society as those from other walks of life. The ability to get the country back on its feet has been due to so many sensible, hardworking people. The word "professional" has taken on a new meaning.
Teachers themselves will be working in one of the lowest risk areas, they must be longing to get back and do the job they were trained to do. After 6 months of planning and consultation, it is time to roll up the sleeves and give of one's best.

How do you work that one out Ellianne? Teenagers over 10 are as infectious as adults and will be forced into cramped, poorly ventilated classrooms, which provide the very worst environment for transmission.

You really are patronising and, quite frankly, ignorant of what many teachers have been doing over the last six months.

He could be a brilliant father, we don’t know, I don’t judge until I know all the facts.
A nice comment from a different perspective Sparkling.

Would those who so condemn teachers for wanting maximum protection provided for the children in their care be happy to send their teenagers (to drink coca-cola) in the pub, if the pub were not big enough for the publican to move the tables apart for safe spacing and provide clear passageways between tables so that no-one was breathed on by every customer on his way to the bar or the loo?

Suppose the publican had assessed the premises and knew that it would cost more to find/buy/rent/maintain/furnish/staff any extra accommodation nearby than his budget could pay for, the brewery wasn't going to give or lend him any, so he opened without the distancing and safety measures that had been laid down, because the brewery decreed that he must open and let in as many customers as pre-lockdown.

Would they still send their children along to the unsafe premises for their coca-cola, and not complain when they caught the virus from somone not showing any symptoms, and gave it to mum, dad, the baby and grandma, and from them to the whole street, and caused the town to be on lockdown? Or would they lynch the publican for not taking care of their child? Why not lynch the brewery for not supporting their publicans, for demanding they take extraordinary measures without extraordinary resources?

Or the government for not supporting schools in their efforts to comply with government commands?

growstuff, just look at your own posts in this thread, nothing but negativity. For many of us, that sums up the teaching profession attitude throughout this crisis.

We can only thank the powers that be that the food industry, transport, and the utility companies did not adopt that same attitude, for the state the country would be in now is unthinkable should that have been the case.

I am not ignorant of the situation growstuff. I do know that teachers work in an environment where random people off the street do not enter their workspace. Compared with supermarket workers, bus drivers, doctors and nurses etc. in that respect they ARE working in a lower risk area.

Galaxy

I have two school age children so presumably I am allowed to say that I think the suggestions on this thread are nonsensical and if my school had included them in their risk assessment I wouldn't have been comfortable sending my child back to school.

It's interesting that posters on Mumsnet, most of whom presumably have school age children, have a very different view from some posters on GN. They know the realities of schools from personal experience and understand the issues.

Grandad1943

growstuff, just look at your own posts in this thread, nothing but negativity. For many of us, that sums up the teaching profession attitude throughout this crisis.

We can only thank the powers that be that the food industry, transport, and the utility companies did not adopt that same attitude, for the state the country would be in now is unthinkable should that have been the case.

Not true grandad. Growstuff has done a sterling job trying to explain the problems involved in full opening of secondary schools and has said that teachers DO WANT to achieve that if possible but government MUST give both adequate funding and guidelines eg can teachers wear masks or not ? Can they operate a rota system or not ? Will there be testing or not ?

I’m sorry but you have simply repeated what you have said so many times on other threads.

My school has been excellent , could not have been more thorough, my son returned in June/July (its all blurred into one!). Even with a thorough risk assessment, maps and video walk through of the school, it took a number of weeks before all parents in the year group felt confident enough to return. They came back at their own pace supported by the school. Goodness knows what the take up rate would have been if the school had suggested some of the plans on this thread.

Elegran - interesting analogy.

There is nothing wrong with people who are ignorant of the education system and how it works putting forward their views. What would make more sense though is for them to listen to those who are in the know when they reassure them that schools really are doing the best they can; but with one arm tied behind their back because of lack of funding to truly make the children safe.

Before I became a school governor I really did not know what goes on inside the system - viewing it from the outside as a parent or grandparent, it all seems so very simple, when in fact it is hedged round with very complex government-dictated systems that have to be adhered to, particularly in the area of safeguarding.

I have been shocked by the amount of work that teachers have to do - far far above what is reasonable - but all the teachers I have met do it with a good grace because they really really care about the children. I take my hat off to them, because I am aware of what they are really doing.

I have 7 GC, going to different schools around the country - they have been supplied with work throughout the closure; it has been monitored and reviewed and all necessary support has been forthcoming. I know this because I have been involved in it with them over zoom.

It is disappointing to learn that some schools have not been as diligent.

Trisher, you are talking about his chequered family life, perhaps this time he has it right. How many of us have married or had relationships more than once? He could be a brilliant father, we don’t know, I don’t judge until I know all the facts.

The word 'moral' applies to all decisions and interactions, not just how one conducts ones sex life. If he was an efficient, principled and effective PM the less than admirable private life wouldn't be a problem. As it is, he displays a contempt for moral behaviour in everything he does. Neither the man or his words are worthy of any respect.

Well said Luckygirl.

Grandad1943 All fresh thinking is shouted down Please could you indicate where on this thread that has happened. I can find suggestions about how this could be managed but none saying new ideas are not welcome.
I was considering the difficulties my GCs school will have, even just the children leaving and arriving. Usually the parents and carers congregate in the two yards. That can't happen because of social distancing. So the staff will need to get over 600 children into the school through 3 (or perhaps 4 if they use the office entrance) doors. How long that will take, what you do about latecomers they will now be working out. But it won't be easy and someone won't like the agreed arrangement.

There has been a lot of criticism of the government in this pandemic for ignoring, or being selective, about scientific evidence, for example not locking down sooner, when there was clear indications that they should.

Now there is evidence from paediatric studies showing that children, especially young ones, although they do catch COVID-19 don’t readily spread it. I don’t think therefore the government can be criticised for wanting to send young children back when there is low risk BUT teenagers have apparently the same ability to spread as adults.

I think to be safer test and track needs to be more efficient than it is at present, and should be a consideration for regular testing in secondary schools for them to operate confidently. This doesn’t seem to be in the plan at present.

Grandad1943

growstuff, just look at your own posts in this thread, nothing but negativity. For many of us, that sums up the teaching profession attitude throughout this crisis.

We can only thank the powers that be that the food industry, transport, and the utility companies did not adopt that same attitude, for the state the country would be in now is unthinkable should that have been the case.

Well said Grandad1943
So you were/are a teacher growstuff.....that doesn’t make you the font of all knowledge with every aspect of education.
My DH was a teacher and many in the family are teachers but they accept and agree that many schools have massively let down children with regards to their education and are still dragging their feet when it comes to returning in September.
Of course many teachers are raring to get back too, it’s a mixed response.
Please allow others on this thread to have their say without saying they know nothing about the teaching profession.

Your first paragraph is correct Luckygirl. None of us here are completely "in the know", the bigger picture is enormous. All I know is that if the government is happy for schools to reopen, I am reassured. Teachers will do their best.
My son works for the MoD, I haven't a clue what he does, but I am reassured that the decisions taken there are similar in terms of protecting our nation.
Theres no time for any more delay, the situation may be fragile but let's try, and if it doesn't work be quick thinking and flexible enough to change.