Is morality something you expect of others?

^I know that there is a Plan B in place.
Reopening might then need to involve some kind of rota system or concentrating on exam classes.^ Excellent growstuff and hopefully a plan C and D in someone's head too.

This dichotomy between the "it should be can-do" and "irresistable force meets immovable parameters" will run and run. Once the schools have been open full time for all pupils for a few weeks we will see the pros and cons. Too late then to start again from scratch.

I was wondering about sports too Maizie. Incidentally, pupils have been told that changing rooms will be out of action, so if they have PE, they need to wear their kit all day - the stench of BO in classrooms at the end of the day is going to be lovely, especially in a classroom above ground floor, where windows don't open.

lemongrove

For all the negative posters......what would you do then?
Also why must teachers be so ‘looked after’ more than all the other workers? They can’t stay at home forever and teaching online has been very very patchy.
There is no other solution, the schools must reopen in Sept.

There is another solution. The trendy term is "blended learning", which is a mix of face to face and distance learning. This would allow pupils to be in school for half the time and for half size classes, giving more classroom space. Plans are already being developed for this kind of learning, should it be needed.

Secondary pupils already spend some of their time working independently, so it would just require organisation to complete interactive work in class with follow-up work being done at home.

Ellianne

"Do sports outside, utilise sports halls, erect marquees, teach outside whenever weather is permitting."
I suggested this way back in May GrannyGravy and posted examples of schools and teachers who were going all out to achieve this. Thinking outside the box, innovating, experimenting are all vital, but that is not what teachers are particularly renowned for. Adapt to the new conditions, be flexible, don't have meetings about every little thing. Be practical while considering the safety aspects, be ready to scrap something instantly if it isn't working. Just give our children the chance they deserve, they have been denied so much. They are our responsibility.

Have the people making these bright suggestions ever worked in a state secondary school?

Do they know that schools will be getting no extra money. Even the wonderful pay rises for teachers (which caused so much teacher-hate on here not so long ago) have to come out of existing budgets. So where is the money coming from for all this wonderful outside the box thinking?

And I'm sure that the staff and pupils will love to be taught out of doors in the middle of winter..

I'm especially intrigued by Do sports outside. Where on earth do you think they do them usually?

Jabberwok

Even if they only open on a rota system it would be much better than nothing! We can only hope!

As far as I know, the plan is to open full-time. I've seen the handbook with expectations my neighbour's son has been given and it's very impressive. There will be a number of restrictions, such as not sharing textbooks or equipment and there will be designated toilets. Movement around the site is going to be strictly regulated. Staff will move to classrooms and practical lessons won't take place.

However, I know some of the staff in the school and I know that there is a Plan B in place. They are fully expecting classes to be sent home. The question is when. The infection rate in the town is still 1 in a 1000, so it's realistic to expect 2 or 3 pupils or staff to be infected at any one time. The problem is going to be those who are asymptomatic and/or before symptoms become evident because there could be a real outbreak. Pupils will then take infection back to their families. They could really do with their own testing station with rapid results.

If there are a number of classes with infected pupils and/or a number of infected staff, the school will have to close. Nobody wants that, but reopening might then need to involve some kind of rota system or concentrating on exam classes.

Ellianne

Yes, *trisher, sadly school nurses no longer exist in the state sector. She costs the school £50k a year.
Class sizes of 20.
It might be another world, but it is a "can do" world.

Only in the private sector I think. When, if ever, did you hear of state schools with 20 pupils per class?

I have 3 family members who are primary school teachers and will be going back to in-service days tomorrow with the children coming in later in the week. They were all involved with online teaching and with the hub school rotas and so have not, as some believe, been sitting at home on their bottoms since March.

As they all work in poor areas of cities or large towns,*eazybee*, there is a limited supply of church halls, libraries and youth clubs within easy reach, and there would be competition among local schools for them anyway.

I am very worried for their safety when they have to spend each day with a full class of children, and it won't be long before the weather makes outdoor teaching impossible. All the classes can't get into the bike shed at once.

GrannyGravy As I've already written, my local comprehensive has 2300 pupils. This is quite a small town, but almost all the teenagers from the surrounding villages come here. I've been doing a mental count of all the church halls and similar spaces I know. At most, there would be space for 200 pupils. Then there would be the problem of transporting staff between sites every change of lesson. It really just would not work.

Even if they only open on a rota system it would be much better than nothing! We can only hope!

"Do sports outside, utilise sports halls, erect marquees, teach outside whenever weather is permitting."
I suggested this way back in May GrannyGravy and posted examples of schools and teachers who were going all out to achieve this. Thinking outside the box, innovating, experimenting are all vital, but that is not what teachers are particularly renowned for. Adapt to the new conditions, be flexible, don't have meetings about every little thing. Be practical while considering the safety aspects, be ready to scrap something instantly if it isn't working. Just give our children the chance they deserve, they have been denied so much. They are our responsibility.

For all the negative posters......what would you do then?
Also why must teachers be so ‘looked after’ more than all the other workers? They can’t stay at home forever and teaching online has been very very patchy.
There is no other solution, the schools must reopen in Sept.

I just fear that children who come from disadvantaged backgrounds or even those with full time working parent/s education will suffer considerably if schools are unable to offer full time education.

Parents are told repeatedly that taking little Johnny/Joanna our of school for a family holiday is detrimental to their education and they will be unable to catch up.

Do sports outside, utilise sports halls, erect marquees, teach outside whenever weather is permitting.

There must be a solution as part-time education cannot just continue until/if a vaccine becomes available.

I think he means we in general rather than we in particular. All his kids go or went to private school anyway where the classes are much smaller so it wouldn’t apply to him in particular, if that makes sense.

And unfortunately ( on GN) there are those who put teachers on a pedestal.
Other professions have been getting on with it, and so must teachers, come September, they are not a protected species!
I think Grandad1943’s posts are spot on.
Schools will adapt however they can within the classroom, but our children cannot be left to their own devices any longer than 6 months.

indeed, my grandchildren go to excellent private schools- large premises, lots of spare room and land, and classes of 15 max- so going back won't be a problem for them.

What about the rest Elianne- those who are already crammed in classes of over 30 in small classrooms - as said, even if it would be possible to solve the physical distancing (somehow- no idea how a 'can do ' attitude can turn a classrooms with 15 double desks with hardly any space to move around- but even if you could) - where would you suddenly find double the number of qualified teachers to teach them, especially in times of shortages, especially in some subjects?

Seems there are many others who follow the (amended) old saying Those who can, do. Those who can pass on what they can do, teach it. Those who can't pass it on and have no idea how that is done, criticise the teachers"

Ellianne It's not so much a "can do" attitude as a "have more" reality.

There is no doubt at all that school leaders will do absolutely everything they can to organise things so that children - they want them back!

It is no good criticising the use of "ifs" as though this is something negative. Our job (I am a school governor) is to look at the "ifs" and try to create contingency plans for these very real possibilities.

I had forgotten that Grandad1943 enjoys taking a pop at schools and school leaders, or I would not have wasted my time posting here.

A sensible discussion on the subject has to take account of the potential pitfalls and make the proper plans, which is exactly what school leaders are doing right now. If we did not do so, we would be rightly criticised.

Looking for these pitfalls is not copping out or thinking negatively; it is just plain common sense.

I am sure that these are just the sort of discussions that Grandad1943's beloved industry heads have been having too. And quite right.

No, GrannyGravy, I don't think schools should remain shut. I think they should open as safely as they can, which will mean that secondary schools will almost certainly not be able to stay open full time for all pupils. It's just not feasible, so schools should offer as much as they can on site and provide the rest by distance learning. The government needs to stop promising the impossible.

I agree Davidhs, education is an emotive topic, second only to health and welfare. Maybe Boris should have said something like, "We have a collective responsibility to get the children back to school in September." He was stupid to say "a moral duty".
I only talk about private schools to illustrate what I perceive as a more "can do" attitude. Believe me teachers in the independent sector are under great pressure too, (from their customers), to deliver. These customers are often far far quicker to complain and blame than those in the state sector, so I was giving an example of how sometimes we just have to suck it and see. The reopening of schools might not be as catastrophic as some seem to think. Words like "disastrous" do nothing to engender confidence or positivity.

Is Grandad1943 still pontificating about the miserable failure of the entire teaching profession? I thought that one had been flogged to death.

BTW eazybee How much do you know about how secondary schools operate? There are specific issues in secondary schools which primary schools don't have.

eazybee You don't appear to have much idea about the planning which has already taken place.

Jabberwok I really understand that. My neighbour's teenage son is also desperate to go back to school, as are my online pupils. I don't think anybody is denying that schools' opening must be a top priority.

However, I'm being pragmatic. It's just not possible to squeeze a quart into a pint pot. I've already written that I think there's a very real possibility that there will be some kind of rota system - maybe one week on/one week off for the pupils - which would allow for half size classes and more space in classrooms. I know for a fact that certain organisations have been given grants to prepare for that kind of learning. It's beyond me why the government can't be honest and tell the public that's what will possibly happen.

Johnson's words about morality are an attempt to shift the moral responsibility to others and to undermine what Starmer has already said.