Is morality something you expect of others?

Anniel

I generally enjoy Gransnet but there ate far too many people who just hate Conservative government and Boris Johnson in particular. So now no prime minister may use the term “moral duty” unless his personal morality is equal to that of the Pope? What ridiculous nonsense some Grans speak because they personally despise a politician. I know many regard Jeremy Corbyn as an enemy of liberal democracy but if he was speaking on a highly important national issue if he was PM then most thinking people would listen. I think we do, as a moral duty to our children, to get schools open. If your morality does not extend to protecting the needs of vulnerable children then maybe you need to look at your own morality.

It's also the moral duty of the government to provide an environment in schools which as safe as possible.

To do that, it needs to concentrate in getting the Test and Track system up to scratch by making testing more available for anybody within a school and ensure that results are quick. The government has specifically ruled out the 90 minute tests to schools. It needs to rethink after wasting so much time and money on failed projects.

It also needs to consider the circumstances in individual schools. Williamson kept going on about social distancing in schools being enough to prevent spread. However, in many schools, particularly secondary schools, classrooms are too small and pupils can't possibly be more than a metre apart. In those circumstances, there should be contingency plans to do the best possible, which is to have a rota system, as originally suggested by SAGE.

So, yes, the government does have a moral duty to get its act together. The children should be paramount, but it should also be acknowledged that infection in schools could seed local outbreaks, which will force whole communities to lockdown, which will have a negative effect on the economy.

It's not rocket science. The government needs to stop trying to shift the blame and recognise its own moral responsibility.

I really do not think that teachers are frightened for their own safety - some might be; or have vulnerable relatives at home. The staff I have spoken to are mostly concerned about the children; and about how they can make them safe in the context of cash-strapped schools just about coping anyway, who now have to take on a whole new system in order to safeguard the pupils. They will of course do it; and are currently working hard to set up the right plans. But they are doing it with one hand tied behind their backs.

I am aware of one teacher who was concerned about taking the virus home to a relative on chemo and finished up taking unpaid leave - a very difficult situation for a family already in distress.

I really do think that the Welsh approach is so much wiser - gradually getting the children back and learning as they go, so that they can make any necessary adjustments.

On the subject of Boris - I am not that bothered about where or with whom he dips his wick - although his behaviour in that regard does him no credit. I am however worried that he is known to be a liar in his previous jobs. That for me disqualifies him from his current job.

If I was on an interview panel and a candidate came before me who had lied his way through a previous position, then would I employ him? - absolutely not; and neither would anyone else.

I generally enjoy Gransnet but there ate far too many people who just hate Conservative government and Boris Johnson in particular. So now no prime minister may use the term “moral duty” unless his personal morality is equal to that of the Pope? What ridiculous nonsense some Grans speak because they personally despise a politician. I know many regard Jeremy Corbyn as an enemy of liberal democracy but if he was speaking on a highly important national issue if he was PM then most thinking people would listen. I think we do, as a moral duty to our children, to get schools open. If your morality does not extend to protecting the needs of vulnerable children then maybe you need to look at your own morality.

If the level of staffing in schools was anywhere near that which is mandatory in nurseries GrannyGravy13 I doubt if there would be many worries. The 3 year old will have one carer to eight children, unfortunately when she starts school aged 4 she will be pushed into a class of up to 30, if she's lucky there might be a TA some of the time.
Hand sanitisers are an excellent idea, perhaps you could write to your MP and ask that they provide schools with enough cash to buy the quantities they will need.

*mark should read mask

maddyone totally agree with your post.

I have a 3 yr old GC in nursery, no social distancing and their sibling starts next month at 1yrs old.

11 and over have to wear a mark to go into a shop, public transport, museum etc so it’s not beyond the realms of possibility to wear them in school. With hand sanitisers/washing surely it can be sorted?

Nope, it isn’t stereotyping about the French, it’s the simple truth, they are a lot more forgiving there about affairs of the heart.?
Being constantly shocked isn’t stereotyping about the British either, it’s another simple truth.

Yes Callistemon a lot of people were.

Excellent post, *maddyone
For some children, school is their only safe space.

We cannot fail a generation.

I was a great fan of Jeremy Thorpe lemongrove

Lucca

* The French don't really care about the private lives of their senior politicians but then they are not preached at by them.*

Wow stereotyping or what !!

Really?

Not even Sarkozi
Or Hollande?
Griveaux?
Fillon?
Cahuzac?

Etc

What actually matters in all of this is the children. I used to teach in a rather tough area. School was often the most safe and secure place for many of our children. Every day that children are out of school is a day that can never be recovered in the life of a child. Children deserve their education, it is one of the rights of a child, according to the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child. We as a society must offer a proper education to our children. It is our duty to do so. Obviously there are some risks with children back in school, but as luck would have it, we are now told younger children are unlikely to catch or spread Coronavirus. Now the scientists know more about this virus it seems children are not the spreaders they once were thought to be. However the science tells us differently in the case of older children, but older children are able to understand and follow instructions more readily. Teachers need to accept the risk I’m afraid, in the same way as my daughter and her husband, who worked as doctors throughout the crisis, and my son who is now back in the office working as a financial director and his wife also back at work as an accountant. Only one son can still work from home now, as a lawyer. Other key workers have worked all the way through, and have been in contact with the public all through.

There is a risk in everything we do, particularly now with the Coronavirus situation. Unless everyone stays in permanent lockdown, some risks will remain.

Rosina I don't suppose that many of us on here care about who does what to whom. Why is it though, that whenever he's criticised his apologists refer to his private life but ignore the comments about corruption, cronyism and nepotism?

Lucca

* The French don't really care about the private lives of their senior politicians but then they are not preached at by them.*

Wow stereotyping or what !!

Lucca so Lemongrove with her comment about the French taking it in their stride isn't stereotyping?

Rosina his children have spoken about him, his daughter called him a "selfish bastard" No.1 child was born 5 weeks after his marriage, so was conceived whilst he was still married to Wife No 1. During his marriage he had at least 3 affairs and was thrown out by his wife several times. One of the women had an abortion another had a child and there are rumours of another child. It took a High Court ruling to make him take responsibility for that child. He then conceived another child whilst still married to Wife No 2. Now you may or may not think this immoral but you must admit it's messy. If he was a woman do you think his behaviour would be considered acceptable?

* The French don't really care about the private lives of their senior politicians but then they are not preached at by them.*

Wow stereotyping or what !!

"Let he who is without sin..." And all that.

Whether he has feet of clay or not - he's right on this issue.

trisher he has four children by his secoond wife, all now adults ..... and what is immoral about that? It seems there is one illegitimate child - what a quaint term in 2020 - and no sensational articles written about him by any women, including his first and second wives, and of course here we go again - 'allegations' of abortions. Perhaps Boris has been on a reality show telling all while I have been on the moon. I have no particular leanings to Boris or his politics, but when an MP says he never talks about his private life - and doesn't - it seems a pity that anyone else needs to. It seems a pity that anyone's private life gets chewed up on forums but - hey ho.

Bluecat

Great post.

I can only think that the people on here who are still sticking up for Johnson don't have much of a moral compass. The Tory Party have been very good at telling the population to do one thing and doing the opposite.

Lemongrove The French don't really care about the private lives of their senior politicians but then they are not preached at by them.

As regards Johnson as Mayor, one of the main reasons he was elected twice were his appearances on Hignify. Most people thought what a great bloke he was and believed every utterance. They've since learned their lesson. Bendy buses, Bridges. pole dancing consultants etc etc.

westendgirl

Bluecat, absolutely splendid post.

Lemongrove I expect to be able to trust my M.P.and my P.M.
To say it is naive to do so makes me wonder what this country has come down to.

It’s the same as always has been.....only things are more transparent now ( or leaked)
The only people you should trust are close friends and family
And logically ( because it happens) even they may let you down.
I certainly wouldn’t trust a complete stranger just because he happened to be an MP ( and ambitious....as they all are.)
I knew plenty of people who trusted Jeremy Thorpe ( in Barnstaple) what a lovely decent man, they said!

westendgirl

Grany they have already said that it isn't necessary.

6000 Test and Trace call centre workers have just been sacked. It would appear that it has finally been acknowledged that the system hasn't worked, although I don't know whether Serco will still be paid.

Anyway, it appears that the government got frit by all the people who were telling it that schools cannot safely open without efficient testing and tracing and have finally acted.

I'm not sure yet of the details, but government spokespeople have been making noises about promising to work with local health officials to get an efficient system working. Whether they can do that by September remains to be seen. It's what should have happened right from the start rather than wasting money, time and lives on a system which didn't work.

Not surprisingly the media isn't reporting this widely, preferring to showcase Johnson and his Nodding Dogs and their claims that schools will be safe.

The government also hasn't advertised the fact that it's urged headteachers, via their union, to make contingency plans for not opening fully and/or for being forced to close at short notice. Headteachers have been urged to upskill their staff's IT skills and to use the distance learning resources the DfE itself is funding.

I see the above as a positive move, despite trying to give out a different PR spin. Hopefully, schools will be functioning properly with minimal disruption. I'm sure the government will continue to blame anybody except itself.

Grany they have already said that it isn't necessary.

In Lebanon the PM resigned and all his government though really they couldn't do any other.

Can't see Johnson and all his governmentdoing likewise even though they caused thousands more Covid19 deaths than nessessary through sheer incompetence

And paying their mates to provide PPE that then didn't materialise or was useless.

And as for Test and Trace fiasco

This should be brought into schools for safety sake for all the children and teachers. That is morally the right thing to do.

I'm glad someone else uses that word "f***wit". One of my favourites and particularly apposite in this case.

Bluecat - excellent post.

And thank you to those who put me right on who the Welsh minister was. Whoever he was, he spoke with good down-to-earth common sense and an absence of rhetoric; which is what we need.