More immigrants crossing the Channel

* there should be no need for these economic (for that’s what they are) migrants to attempt the illegal sea crossing.*

Sorry but I simply don’t believe they are for the most part. We can have no idea how terrible life is in some countries for those who are persecuted. It’s a horrible old world at times.

No criticism of our shambolic employment regulations the lack of any inspectorate and ID system which really is at the root of this. Yes anyone can rock up and hide easily. Even the minority who are discovered and processed seem to disappear. Not to mention those thousands who overstay visas and are never checked up on. All the Tory bluster about controlling borders - they’ve had 10 years and done nothing that has been effective. Now they want France to control our borders for us.

Of course we need co-operation between European countries.

Does anyone actually think brexit helps?

No, I don't think Brexit has much to do with it.These migrants would still be coming brexit or no brexit! Again, why are these poor people not looked after properly by France? Why are they allowed to camp in woods, young children roaming around unaccompanied? Basic facilities non existent?! Do none of you people who consider us so heartless, have one word of condemnation for the French authorities who allow this, presumably shrugging their shoulders?!! Unbelievable! I think perhaps you are the heartless ones!!!

We do need to pay France for the costs incurred re migrants, and clearly the UK and France need to work together on this problem. However, it’s not just a problem for the UK and France. Greece and Italy have had terrible problems, and indeed Turkey too. I don’t have the magic answer, I don’t think anyone does, and indeed neither did/does the EU. They have exactly the same problem and indeed have shown quite clearly that nationalistic interests come first, remember the borders being closed in Hungary in 2015? And there were other countries who refused to allow migrants in or refused to allow them to stay. Saying the EU will solve it or work together is wishful thinking, they didn’t work together! It was suggested that all EU countries should take a share of the 2015 migrants, many simply refused.

Long term I don’t know what the solution will be. I don’t think anyone does. Will Africa and other countries gradually lose their populations to the west? Can the west absorb them? Will Europe suffer a massive brain drain to Australia and the new world countries? If I was younger I think I’d go to New Zealand, but at my age, I’m not going anywhere.

Apparently brexit is being used as a sales pitch by the people smugglers.

I agree Jabberwok that France’s behaviour towards migrants is appalling. The truth is that they don’t want them, and are happy for them to leave. Has anyone seen the residents of Calais on television complaining about what has happened to their city. I have, and they hate the situation.

The people smugglers are devoid of any humanity or morals. Disgusting people. Does anyone think they care if people drown?

The authorities are aiding and abetting the criminal gangs by not prosecuting them.

My anger is reserved for the traffickers who give not a flying fig for the people they take money from, they do not lose sleep over bodies being washed up on the beach. Their only concern is the Euros piling up under their mattresses ???

Can Europe absorb a few hundred million people from Africa all claiming asylum and/or wanting a better life? That is what’s going to happen as more and more attempts are made to cross the Med and most are successful.

Yes Maddyone , it is these blo####y smugglers that both governments should be pulling out all the stops to apprehend and lock up! It's been going on for so long, they must know who they are, where they come from and how they operate?! Your right too, the French just don't want them , Calais in particular doesn't want them, which, human nature being what it is, is understandable,! Make them too comfortable and they won't go! This sadly seems to be the way of thinking in France!!!!

For clarity on the legal position of the refugees/asylum seekers trying to reach the UK by crossing the Channel in small boats.

This, by an international refugee law specialist

An asylum seeker is entitled to seek asylum, without penalties as to manner of entry, specifically due to the circumstances necessitating their flight from persecution. This is a matter of international rather than domestic law, not EU specifically

Safety, as understood through case law, is subjective. Now France may be considered safe for you and I, however, as evidenced by reports of police brutality and its being found guilty of breaching refugee rights by ECHR, among other things, it may not be for asylum seekers.
This hasn't stopped 150 thousand plus individuals applying for asylum there, however, the multiple factors involved in determining an individual feeling of safety have meant that a small fraction, 4,300 roughly, have felt unsafe enough as to make a dangerous channel crossing
As an aside, the same can be said throughout the EU, for example Germany has approximately 166+thousand applications, yet people may not feel safe there due to the 1,600 record attacks against asylum seekers last year.
The Dublin III Regulations, cover a member state's responsibilities. They are not the governing instrument regarding asylum seekers however, which is the 1951 Convention relating to the Status of Refugees.

Neither these regulations, nor the convention, nor any refugee law instrument by the way state that an asylum seeker has to seek asylum in any specific country. Leaving the EU does not remove the UK's obligations under international law

Leaving Dublin III Regulations all but guarantees it becomes harder for UK to send asylum seekers back to France, Particularly case as France routinely deports them to Libya, which is an active conflict zone, and thereby risks breaching non-refoulement

Non-refoulement is not a specifically refugee law focused tool. It is covered by a number of human rights instruments and means you cannot deport someone to an unsafe country, or a third country where they may then subsequently be deported to an unsafe country

Use of the phrase "economic migrants". The only way to demonstrate that someone is not a "genuine asylum seeker" is by processing their application. A failure to do so is also a breach of international, not EU, law.

Now, it is is also worth mentioning that while the channel is governed by international maritime law it is not illegal to cross it, It is, however, illegal for the navy to violate French waters or for a vessel to fail to render assistance to those in need on the seas.

Again, this has nothing to do with the EU and is a matter of international law which the UK will still be subject to upon the ending of the transition period. As a sovereign nation the UK is at liberty to remove itself from these treaties though

I would argue that anyone who had the "country's best interests at heart" would not suggest that making it a pariah state and diminishing its influence in the international community, which this would undoubtedly do, was the way to go about this.

This is from a twitter thread responding to a letter written by an MP. This is the thread writer's recommendation to her. I echo his sentiments in that people should be properly informed before commenting...

From start to finish this letter is full of inaccuracies and misconceptions. I would suggest that in the genuine interests of the country it would be best for a serving MP to learn at least a basic level about the laws governing it before spouting tripe.

Dan Sohege
Human rights advocate, international refugee law specialist, immigration economist

If all those immigrants/refugees that have arrived had all clubbed together and instead of paying a gangster/smuggler, they could have paid for the hire of a proper vessel to get them here and nobody would have died.

The most dreadful were all those who'd died in the lorry.

EllanVannin

If all those immigrants/refugees that have arrived had all clubbed together and instead of paying a gangster/smuggler, they could have paid for the hire of a proper vessel to get them here and nobody would have died.

The most dreadful were all those who'd died in the lorry.

Nice idea, but they probably have none of the papers/documents which would enable them to hire a boat.

Pantglas2 asked the same question I have asked before- how many hundreds of millions of migrants from the Middle East and Africa are European countries expect to absorb?

Where does all the foreign aid money go? Isn’t it expected to help people in poor countries?

I wonder how many of those, oh so sympathetic souls on here would be willing to house and support a migrant?

Pixie Balls Cooper vowed to do just that a few years ago! We are still waiting.

I believe Gary Lineker has recently made a similar pledge.
Would anyone care to put money on that happening??

No!!!!

MaizieD, the Home Office knew this was happening so why didn't they make preparations re. paperwork etc. ? It's because these government departments don't work efficiently in any area that the " back door " is used in lots of cases. It wouldn't happen otherwise.

The Windrush people are still waiting for paperwork----after how long ? How can anyone move forward ?

If our own are left behind, what chance others ?

When the Greek islands were originally being swamped with refugees who were coming across from Turkey, there were many elderly Greek ladies all dressed in the traditional black, stopping all the young men arriving and asking "Why do you not fight for your country?"

And I do wonder. When we in the UK were being bombed to smithereens during World War 2, we didn't desert our country in its hour of need and run away to somewhere nicer.

I feel desperately sorry for refugees, but what about the practical side?

Pixie Balls Cooper vowed to do just that a few years ago! We are still waiting. I believe Gary Lineker has recently made a similar pledge.Would anyone care to put money on that happening??

Or Lily Allen or Emma Thompson who both pledged a few years ago and did nothing?

Why aren't we surprised?!!

The French have found a document on the ‘child’ which indicates he was 28 - apparently. Still sad but doesn’t have quite the quelle horreur factor.

I wonder who said he was sixteen initially.

The other chap on the boat with him, who managed to swim to shore, claimed that they were both 16 apparently ... but documents found on the body proved otherwise.

Figures from European Asylum Support Office re numbers requesting asylum 2019;
Germany.....142,450 requests
France .........119,915
Greece .......... 74,905
UK .................. 44,250

Interesting to see this.