on both sides of the pond- the extreme left is scuppering their own cause

he and his policies were massively unpopular with the general public,

Do you never read what other posters have written, lemon?

From Dinahmo 16.57

Before the last election I read that focus groups were held throughout the country to discuss Labour's policies. The groups weren't told beforehand whose policies were being discussed. The majority approved those policies, until they were told that they were LP policies.

It wasn't the policies, it was the party promoting them, or it was Corbyn. .

I've seen video clips of this sort of exercise. Very much the same reactions...

.not that Russia tries to interfere in many countries where it can ( that’s a given) but nobody can prove their interference influenced elections, be it Brexit or the last GE.

I don't think you read the Russian Report too closely, then, lemon. Nothing was 'proved' because it was never investigated.

"Poor kids are just as smart as white kids" if Trump had said that there would be riots in the streets.

American elections......

I’m not very interested in America elections, although my son informs I should be, consequently I don’t normally care who wins over there. I don’t like Donald Trump though.

I don’t yet know who I will vote for at the next election, but I do think Keir Starmer has a good chance of being elected as PM. He is very intelligent, and has good oratory skills.

I dare say there would be no squealing about a ‘sham democracy’ if Corbyn had won the last GE.

Can’t agree at all biba.....not that Russia tries to interfere in many countries where it can ( that’s a given) but nobody can prove their interference influenced elections, be it Brexit or the last GE.
Corbyn supporters here and in RL have to accept that he and his policies were massively unpopular with the general public, and were, right from the start.He encouraged more far left members to join the party, no doubt of that, but that was never going to translate to votes.
As to selling the NHS to Trump, bio safety /husbandry and workers rights and wages......we haven’t yet done a deal with the EU, so no good getting paranoid about anything as yet.
Covid 19 has been a real blow to our economy, but also to economies everywhere and we can’t yet know how things will be.

And Obama is on record earlier this year warning a fellow Democrat about Biden - ‘don’t underestimate Joe’s ability to f**k things up’.

Talk about pulling the rug from underneath an old man’s feet.

Trump will win. I’d bet on it. Polls can’t be relied upon. People vote for Trump in the anonymity of the polling both. Some like to hide the fact that they like him.

So true biba. Since we all know that we live in a sham democracy, distorted by foreign interference, colossal financial contributions to the Tory Party, support from the right-wing press and the disgraceful FPTP electoral system, then those of us who are in the centre. centre-left and left of the political spectrum should pull together.

If the sad years of Jeremy Corbyn's leadership of the Labour Party showed us anything, they surely demonstrated that pushing left wing policies in an uncomromising way whilst attacking the centre-left only helped the Tories.

It is time for the Labour Party to pull together to support the current leadership, and extend the hand of friendship to the Liberal Democrats, the Greens, the Scottish and Welsh Nationalists and other anti-Tory groups.

Internecine squabbling in the LP has only helped the Tories.

lemongrove says 'biba you forgot the small matter that the voters decide on
Who they will vote for, not special advisors or ERG members or any shadowy body etc.'

but sorry, where have you been last few months when outside interference was PROVEN, targeting, massive funds given illegally and oft from outside the country. Did you not hear all the lies and promises, about a great deal, easy peasy- about the NHS being safe from a Deal with Trump, about workers' rights and wages being improved- husbandry and bio safety being garanteed (to improve even) and so much more. About the front pages and headlines in the DM, the Sun and the rest of the foreign owned gutter press. Really. Time to wake up.

generations of voters in their 40s and below
Who obviously didn't rush out to vote for him or else he'd be in No 10 now.

Anyway, he's history.
We need to look forward now.

Well, I didn't, Maizie and I still think he's a relic from the past.
And none too intellectual either

50s even

As an example, people can remember the old days of BR and don't want to return to those days. I agree that the present rail system is chaotic but we need to take a completely new look at it, not return to the dark old days of dirt, dust and strikes which I think is what many thought dinosaur Corbyn would bring to much of the country.

That's what I find so bizarre. Why should we return to 'dirt, dust and strikes'? It has no logic. It's mindless regurgitation of media indoctrination.

We have experienced renationalisation (twice) with the East Coast main line and it has been entirely successful. It's infuriating that renationalisation is associated with things that happened such a long time ago (&, TBH, I don't recall BR being any worse than the current mish mash..)

Of course, the other annoying thing is that we have generations of voters in their 40s and below who really don't have any memory of BR.

And to label Corbyn a 'dinosaur' was so ironic when large numbers of Brexiters seemed to want England to revert to the 1970s...

Before the last election I read that focus groups were held throughout the country to discuss Labour's policies. The groups weren't told beforehand whose policies were being discussed. The majority approved those policies, until they were told that they were LP policies.

IMO the LP went too far with their policy statements and that put many people off voting for them. The public could not believe that so much money could be found, despite the manifesto having been independently costed. I think that the policies tacked on later in the campaign, such as broadband for everyone were the nails in the coffin.

I watched some of Corbyn's speeches on the news and thought he spoke very well but he was not very good in one to one interviews. He could not control his irritation with some of some of the questions being asked and snapped back at the interviewers. KS has far more control over his reactions to Johnson.

attracted more votes than any previous leader
almost established a Labour gov in 2017

The Plain English campaigners would say "He lost".
He just wasn't good enough.

Labour policies brought people out to vote
Yes, and the policies encouraged Labour people to vote Tory.

Maizie I think the thought of so much re-nationalisation was too much, too far for many.

As an example, people can remember the old days of BR and don't want to return to those days. I agree that the present rail system is chaotic but we need to take a completely new look at it, not return to the dark old days of dirt, dust and strikes which I think is what many thought dinosaur Corbyn would bring to much of the country.

I will probably not vote Lib Dem next time so my vote, for what it's worth, is floating.
It may only be one vote, but I think many people feel like that.
They will just need convincing.
It's not going to help if the LP are going to carry on in chaos.

Callistemon

Sorry, but I can't agree, Gagajo

Corbyn wasn't the best hope and is the reason why it's all in such disarray.

However, I think the LP will regroup, recover, maybe not so far to the left as some may like and will be re-elected next time.

I sincerely hope that you are right.

Iam64

EllanVannin. Your information about Keir Starmer, Nazir Azal and the child sexual exploitation scandals in many towns (not only Rochdale) is incorrect. I won't bore everyone by repeating the truth, but google it if you want to.

As for the left attacking Starmer, I sometimes wonder if they're in the pay of the Conservative party. They are either to dim to understand what the message from the electorate in the last decade is saying, or they don't want a Labour government.

RE your first paragraph. It's amazing how people, often the same ones, come up with the same old misinformation /lies. The subject of Rochdale etc has come up on GN so many times and each time it has been refuted. Yet still many believe the lies to be true.

I just don't understand why those who lean more towards the left than those who are left of centre think that KS has done a bad job. I watched PMQs most weeks and thought he did a very good job opposing Johnson.

My own feeling is that the majority in the country were fed up with the argy bargy of PMQs and didn't want the opposition to make political capital out of the covid crisis. KS has tried and, IMO, succeeded to correct Johnson when he got his facts wrong but also to offer support to the govt. It would seem that his stance is not acceptable to some LP supporters.

Lemongrove, I don't bullsh*t. I do believe that, as do just about all of my relatives and friends. I appreciate we live in our own echo chambers, but just because you don't agree doesn't make it wrong.

Britain is in a political vacuum. The power and purse strings are not in the hands of politicians. We're not a democracy anymore. I rest my case.

and if Starmer wants to win an election he needs to stay with those policies , He seems instead to be drifting further to the right.

I agree that there was very little wrong with the 2019 manifesto.

Can you, though, trisher clarify why you think Starmer is 'drifting further right'? Has he made any statements to indicate this?

(I do think the LP needs to get its economic beliefs right, stop trying to mimic neo-liberal monetarist theory)

However, I think the LP will regroup, recover, maybe not so far to the left as some may like and will be re-elected next time.

I could never work out what was so very 'far left' about their actual policies.

I thought it was more a case of rightwing demonisation of the leadership. Despite the fact that the tories rare just about owned by the Russians!

Odd that people are swallowing all sorts of Keynesian stuff now without blinking...

I see this as the usual blaming the left that appears so often on GN. It always states 'Corbyn couldn't have won an election' ignoring the fact that he attracted more votes than any previous leader and almost established a Labour gov in 2017 and this in a predicted Tory landslide, with constant and harmful MSM coverage.
And before any one begins questioning I know he lost and was according to some unpopular on the doorstep. The point is that if it was Corbyn who lost the election it was Labour policies that brought people out to vote, and if Starmer wants to win an election he needs to stay with those policies , He seems instead to be drifting further to the right. In which case the LP will become once more indistinguishable from the Tories.
Incidently I don't think he wll be leader when the next election happens

Sorry, but I can't agree, Gagajo

Corbyn wasn't the best hope and is the reason why it's all in such disarray.

However, I think the LP will regroup, recover, maybe not so far to the left as some may like and will be re-elected next time.