on both sides of the pond- the extreme left is scuppering their own cause

MaizieD, there are six million trade union members in Great Britain.^

But it's a non-sequitur to say they all think the same.

I, too, was a trades union rep in my youth and always voted Liberal.
I always joined a Trades Union because I believed that no-one should accept any rights eg pay rises etc fought for by the Union without belonging and making no contribution to the Union.

I do not know how other members voted.

The first line should have been a quote

Thank you for the cutting and pasting advice, Grandad!!

MaizieD

^MaizieD, there are six million trade union members in Great Britain. That figure was rising prior to the Covid crisis coming about^.

This is what I was trying to find out.

I've always been in a union when I've worked, always Unison or prior incarnations, as it happens. I've even been a union rep (though not a terribly good one). In my experience the ordinary rank and file members aren't terribly interested in politics and are not particularly militant. So I'm not seeing 6 million fervent far left socialists in the unions... That's all

Of course, there are not six million fervent far left socialists but the lay activists that are at the forefront of workplace trade union activity are.

Those activists also sit on all the structural committees of those unions (Branch, District, Regional and National) and in that what they say and think is what becomes their union's policy.

In that their opinions of Starmer and the now governing Labour right wing could not with the vast majority of those activists be lower.

Anyone who is a member of Unite can Just join their online Branch meeting to witness what I state.

The teaching unions have over 500,000 members and Unison has many non-teaching members in schools. I bet they don't agree with Grandad's views on teachers.

There are approximately 30 million working people in the UK. Most people of working age work, unless they choose to stay at home, are disabled, are unemployed, are students or are so rich they don't need to work.

Unite only represents a handful of them.

The Unite union are the Labour Parties largest donors with over 78% of its members paying the political levy. There are resolutions already in front of the rail unions national committees calling for an end to their political levy funding of the Labour Party.

The matter will be undoubtedly discussed at next months TUC conference at which further moves could be brought forward in regard to the disaffiliation of the Labour party from the Trade Union Congress.

Starmer needs to wake up and begin to reach out across the entire Labour movement, engage in real dialogue and begin to encompass and unite all sectors of that affiliation.

growstuff

The teaching unions have over 500,000 members and Unison has many non-teaching members in schools. I bet they don't agree with Grandad's views on teachers.

growstuff who has stated anything about teachers in this thread, certainly not me. ??

I think that we all need to remember that politics is the art of the possible.

What makes progress impossible is bitter conflict between The Judean People's Front and the People's Front of Judea. Guess who wins ? Yes it's the Romans every time.

varian hence the results of the 2017 election- thrown away by a right wing element. Just think with a little more commitment you would never have been subjected to Boris &co.

A little more commitment from whom?

What happened in 2019?

We would have a very different government now, if we were still living with the 2017 results. It could even be that a few on the more centrist wing of the Conservative Party would have defected by now.

Many did defect to the LibDems but the power of the VoteLeave clique and their funders soon pushed them out.

2017 - the L P lost an election against an unpopular government. 2019 the LP was slaughtered during an election it should have won. Alongside that, the L P lost local and EU elections.

Iam64

2017 - the L P lost an election against an unpopular government. 2019 the LP was slaughtered during an election it should have won. Alongside that, the L P lost local and EU elections.

All very much assisted by the right-wing faction within the Labour Party working against its leader and even against the party winning those general elections.

The repercussions of that are only just coming about in regard to Starmer and that faction.

What happened in 2019? Boris Johnson wanted an election to cement his power and increase his majority. He goaded Jeremy Corbyn into agreeing. The LPPLP wanted a spring election. A spring election wouldn't have happened as COVID19 was lurking unbeknown to us all just round the corner. However, with no election, Boris would be working with the majority he had pre-election and would have had to tread more carefully. The election was held, Boris got a massive majority on the old 'divide and rule' strategy and the rest, as they say, is history.

varian

Many did defect to the LibDems but the power of the VoteLeave clique and their funders soon pushed them out.

There were also potential LibDem voters, who were frightened that the LibDems would form a coalition with Labour. They would probably have tolerated Starmer, but Corbyn was too much. I spoke to quite a few of them in 2019.

Exactly Devorgilla. The government would not have been able to get away with half of what it's currently doing.

Many also looked at the lib dems and thought this is just not where I am politically. Centre left and liberal Democrat are just not the same thing.

Galaxy

Many also looked at the lib dems and thought this is just not where I am politically. Centre left and liberal Democrat are just not the same thing.

Despite being a lifelong Lib/LibDem voter, I agree with you. I think the appointment of Jo Swinson as leader was a huge mistake.

Locally, the LibDems do have centre-left policies, although I think it probably depends on the area where you live and your perspective. In my area, they are the only alternative to Conservatives and the local councillors are vocal and quite influential. However, at a national general election level, they stand no chance.

All the LibDems I know (and I know a lot) would certainly describe themselves as centre left Galaxy. In 2010 we would much have preferred to enter a coalition with the Labour Party but the numbers did not add up.

varian

All the LibDems I know (and I know a lot) would certainly describe themselves as centre left Galaxy. In 2010 we would much have preferred to enter a coalition with the Labour Party but the numbers did not add up.

Don't forget that some Labour supporters call Starmer right-wing. It depends on your perspective.

They may do but it's a very different centre left to what people in the labour party would describe as centre left. I think there probably were similarities a few years ago but not now. There are still what I consider some old school liberals in there somewhere but not many, I agree it's very different at local level growstuff.

All the Labour Party, Greens and LibDems in thus area know each other and are quite amicable. They do work together on local issues, especially housing and the environment.

Before lockdown, we had monthly pub meetings, which were attended from people from all three parties. We didn't always sing the same notes, but we were definitely singing from the same hymn sheet.

Yes indeed growstuff. The left/right axis does not give an accurate picture of political attitudes. There are many who would describe themselves as left-wing whose attitudes on some matters are very conservative, and vice versa.