A group has been created with the aim of removing the government

Janpt

Furret If you are hoping for a Marxist government led by Keir Starmer then dream on. Many former Labour voters in this country have finally seen the light. You cannot give credit to a Prime Minister who has been so ill and continues to run the country in the middle of a Pandemic and with all the other problems to be faced. There has been talk on this forum about compassion and kindness but it is sadly lacking from some.

Starmer.........A Marxist.???

Many in the Labour movement would state that he is attempting to take the Parliamentary Labour Party so far to the right it will be in a position to form a coalition with the Tory Party should a coalition be necessary following the next General Election.......whenever that may be.

Thinking about it, the Starmer led part of any coalition would probably be the far right-wing. ?

Jabberwok

No Furret1, I don't need or want your patronising explanations, in fact I don't want to talk to you at all, and from now on won't be.

Bat home.

Furret If you are hoping for a Marxist government led by Keir Starmer then dream on. Many former Labour voters in this country have finally seen the light. You cannot give credit to a Prime Minister who has been so ill and continues to run the country in the middle of a Pandemic and with all the other problems to be faced. There has been talk on this forum about compassion and kindness but it is sadly lacking from some.

We had a general election which resulted in a Conservative government. There was no credible opposition because of the unspeakable Labour leader. What makes anyone think that the pandemic would have been managed any better by another party? It’s been confusing and chaotic at times but the country as a whole was pitifully unprepared and that’s the responsibility of all previous governments who refused to spend time or money on something that might never happen. The government has looked after us a lot better than many in other countries and whilst hardship and recession were inevitable much has been to mitigate the effects. Some people will always say it’s never enough but that’s not realistic.

growstuff

There is no logical contradiction between having respect for working people in the UK (of whom millions aren't trade union members) and finding some trade union attitudes rooted in the 1960s. Therefore, the rest of your post is flawed and irrelevant. In fact, most of the post doesn't even address the issue.

I believe my above post demonstrates very well that the Lib Dems have never supported the working people of Britain.

However, I can understand how those that supported the Liberal Democrats during those years of the coalition would wish to now play down what that party and they were part of.

In fact, going back to varian's post, you've completely ignored it and not addressed it any way.

There is no logical contradiction between having respect for working people in the UK (of whom millions aren't trade union members) and finding some trade union attitudes rooted in the 1960s. Therefore, the rest of your post is flawed and irrelevant. In fact, most of the post doesn't even address the issue.

varian

Grandad I have great appreciation for the working people of this country, especially those on the front line who have kept us going during this difficulty year, but these workers have been sadly let down by our incompetent government, as have the people in the USA, Brazil and other countries with right wing populist governments.

Varian, you state in your above post that you have "great appreciation for the working people of this country",

However, in your post in this thread on the 24/08/20 @17:46, you were describing those who organised through trade unions in an effort to protect themselves from being "let down" by government or unfairly treated by their employers as being rooted in the 1960s and totally out of date in today's society.

So varian, could you please inform me and others how those working people are supposed to protect themselves and their working conditions in today's society.

Should they individually go cap in hand to their employers and beg for a pay rise, training or the just maintenance of the conditions they hold already??? Do you varian along with other Liberal Democrats see that as the way forward for Britains essential workers that have served us all so well throughout the Covid-19 crisis.

I would remind all that in 2012 while the Tory/LibDem coalition was the government of Britain David Cameron announced that it was that government's policy to scrap all industrial Safety legislation in favour of company self-regulation. The Liberal Democrats remained in that coalition government while those plans were prepared and the first stage of the policy was implemented limiting compensation claims for safety breaches against employers.

In 2014 Cameron implemented the second stage of that policy with companies being allowed to self assess all building materials safety requirements. That change of legislation the Grenfell inquiry has already concluded was the main cause of the Grenfell Tower tragedy.

So much for the Liberal Democrats support of the average working people of Britain. It is that party and all who support it who are totally out of touch with the realities of Britain today.

Incompetent Government, the Liberal Democrats were at the very heart of one only a few years back.

A full reference to what Cameron stated in 2012 while in coalition with the Liberal Democrats can be found by following this link:-
www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/jan/05/cameron-targets-health-and-safety-rules

No Furret1, I don't need or want your patronising explanations, in fact I don't want to talk to you at all, and from now on won't be.

Grandad I have great appreciation for the working people of this country, especially those on the front line who have kept us going during this difficulty year, but these workers have been sadly let down by our incompetent government, as have the people in the USA, Brazil and other countries with right wing populist governments.

...in the heat of the moment.

Jabberwok

Furret, I think exactly the same about you, but am too polite to say so! I can't quite see that acknowledging the efforts and dedication of key workers is something to be told to shut up about, but you obviously don't value their contributions, in fact I daresay you wish that they'd all down tools and plunged the country into chaos. How disappointing for you that that didn't happen. The present government has been democratically elected under our current rules, and until those ruled are democratically changed that is what you are stuck with unless you are advocating anarchy? As for Boris, presumably you know categorically what he will be doing in six months time, not just hearsay , if not then you are in danger of, and probably are, talking rubbish.

What an odd and illogical misinterpretation you put on my words.

Do you understand the value of a question in debate? Shall I explain? It’s an invitation to discuss the point raised. You have clearly not understood that and dashed off a reply in the hear of the moment.

Furret, I think exactly the same about you, but am too polite to say so! I can't quite see that acknowledging the efforts and dedication of key workers is something to be told to shut up about, but you obviously don't value their contributions, in fact I daresay you wish that they'd all down tools and plunged the country into chaos. How disappointing for you that that didn't happen. The present government has been democratically elected under our current rules, and until those ruled are democratically changed that is what you are stuck with unless you are advocating anarchy? As for Boris, presumably you know categorically what he will be doing in six months time, not just hearsay , if not then you are in danger of, and probably are, talking rubbish.

I haven't read all 13 pages threads, forgive me if I am repeating. I have a sneaky suspicion any potential replacement Prime Minister might not share enthusiasm for taking over the role right now. Have any of them called for an early General Election? Better to keep their head down, quietly note what is being done now and later insist they would have acted differently. Perhaps that is just because I think all politicians are sneaky and suspicious.

Put up and shut up Jabberwock? Not try to point out what is wrong because that’s ‘tedious’?

Lie down and roll over? Surely that’s not very British.

Granny, it worries a lot of people that there are people like you that do not support a democratically elected government, finding fault with everything, that no doubt your magic wand could make better. Life isn't like that..

Not in my book either but what do I know.
I am also quite capable of being grateful to key workers and looking at other aspects of society. In the same way I can think about what to have for tea and think about oh I dont know the situation in Syria.

“
Galaxy appears to be linking possible detrimental effects of viewing porn to men in bringing about rape. ”

Not in my book she isn’t.

Grandad I totally agree with you. It it is true that key workers have without fail kept this country going throughout this pandemic, utilities, postman, refuse collectors, railway workers and many more unsung ordinary people have unfailingly turned up for duty. I for one am very grateful as I have made clear to the men who have emptied my bins week in and week out! Perhaps a clap for them would be in order?!
Constantly blaming this one and that one to the point of childish personal comments is to say the least tedious and unhelpful.

Johnson won’t last long. He’s a total embarrassment. Plus he thought this PM business was all a jolly and now he finds it’s not.

There’s rumours abounding that he will step down soon due to ill health, left over post Covid fatigue.

varian

Populist governments have been singularly unsuccessful in coping with the pandemic, but do their followers care?

Varian, the government can and has only set the framework for the population to follow throughout this pandemic.

However, it is working people that have within that ever changing framework kept this nation functioning whether that be in Health Care, Water, electricity, Gas, Food Manufacturing, Road Distribution or Essential Retailing, it is the crucial workers in those sectors that have provided all you and all others with what they have required to survive.

Therefore, Perhaps a little more appreciation and faith in the working people of this country combined with less condemnation of all would perhaps benefit your outlook varian

Populist governments have been singularly unsuccessful in coping with the pandemic, but do their followers care?

Legislation about anything should end the activities that it has outlawed as a result of social pressure, but there always remains a reservoir of those who don't wish to co-operate with the legislation any more than they did with social pressure. If it worked 100%, there would be no crime and we could all go out for the day leaving our front doors unlocked, our windows open, and our valuables in full view. For the attitudes to everyone to follow the legislation (which itself follows the change in attitudes of a majority and the positive actions of law-makers) time is needed for it to "sink in" and for it to become automatic to comply.

Populist governments are successful by division and othering.

That is one reason that we have seen a rise in this sort of thing.

Yes you are right about the archers, it wasnt a deliberate oversight. I love the archers!
I think discrimination also comes in waves or perhaps it's more complex that that. Perhaps it's hard for those of us not in that particular group to judge it, I used to think that gay rights had progressed beyond measure but recently I am beginning to wonder if that is the case. I think you sometimes get so far and then there is a kickback so to speak.