Feeling bewildered and wondering if I am wrong...

I doubt it was done by accident.

Yep that mug is awful.

Really bad use of different fonts imho

In short, I am fed up of my views being taken for granted and changes to my country's traditions being decided by organisers of events

Imagine how people felt When told that winter festivals were now all going to celebrate Jesus!

But here we are.

quizqueen

I object to people stating that the 'majority' think this or that when there is no proof that!! On the BBC, I often hear guests saying, 'Well, everyone thinks/supports' etc. That simply is not true, as my view is often contradictory to their claims. In short, I am fed up of my views being taken for granted and changes to my country's traditions being decided by organisers of events.

quizqueen, I said ‘I think it would be a good thing to review a ‘tradition’ which no longer reflects the views of the majority of people in this country.

Do you think that the majority of people in this country support British imperialism? I’d have thought that while st there may well be people in this country who do think that Britain should lay claim to other countries and all seas, it is
a minority view.

And are you yourself in favour of British imperialism? If so, then you are entitled to your view, but I’m pretty sure it isn’t the view of the majority in Britain today.

Rosina

At the time this song was composed the globe was largely pink, and just to put forward a positive aspect, Britain's 'ruling' of the waves, following the efforts of Nelson and the Navy, meant that we did much to wipe out slavery and piracy. A song of its time - sung at the Proms as a tradition. Are we to obliterate everything that has passed because we think differently now?

Nelson wasn't even born until 1758. He didn't have a song written 18 years before his birth.

quizqueen

I object to people stating that the 'majority' think this or that when there is no proof that!! On the BBC, I often hear guests saying, 'Well, everyone thinks/supports' etc. That simply is not true, as my view is often contradictory to their claims. In short, I am fed up of my views being taken for granted and changes to my country's traditions being decided by organisers of events.

Do you go to the proms quizqueen?

As far as I know, they're not a state occasion. It's up to the organisers and those who attend.

Why change your own thinking to suit others?

Nitpicking maybe, but "above everybody" would be "Über allen" (dative plural). "Alles" is a pronoun, whereas "allen" is an adjective.

Rammstein has a song with the words "Deutschland, Deutschland über allen". The whole song is ironic.

Germans would definitely have understood "Über alles" as meaning that Germany and Germans were superior to anybody and everything else on earth. They had been subject to propaganda language which conflated all sorts of images of country, pride, victory and war-mongering.

The point is that Germany changed the words as part of its de-Nazification programme. While retaining the sense of national pride, it lost the quest for German superiority.

I agree QQ. Politicians saying "people wanted brexit" should say "a minority of people wanted brexit"

I object to people stating that the 'majority' think this or that when there is no proof that!! On the BBC, I often hear guests saying, 'Well, everyone thinks/supports' etc. That simply is not true, as my view is often contradictory to their claims. In short, I am fed up of my views being taken for granted and changes to my country's traditions being decided by organisers of events.

At the time this song was composed the globe was largely pink, and just to put forward a positive aspect, Britain's 'ruling' of the waves, following the efforts of Nelson and the Navy, meant that we did much to wipe out slavery and piracy. A song of its time - sung at the Proms as a tradition. Are we to obliterate everything that has passed because we think differently now?

*can

The song was written in 1740. We've moved on since then but wan still enjoy the song and music without fearing we'll be contaminated. Can't we?

I never gave the words of "Rule Britannia" a second thought. I've just read them and I agree with Rosina. But feel free to enlighten me anyone.
I love the last night and I actually made it to Hyde Park one year. And stood waving my flag singing lustily. It's a lovely memory. The Proms won't be the same.

MawB2 said ‘Sorry Geekesse - a common misconception
“Über alles “ means “above everything else” and in that sense is identical to the popular hymn “I vow to thee my country, all earthly things above”
“Über alle ” would be “above everyone “’

Point taken, MawB2, but it doesn’t alter the fact that the German authorities made the change to the German National anthem. We could repurpose the really good tunes to fit more ethical lyrics. As I said, I won’t sing the first verse of ‘I vow to thee my country’ either. I do not hold ‘my country’ above all earthly things, and I can’t promise ‘the love that asks no question’ to any entity. But I do sing, and value the second verse, though the non-religious might find that equally problematic.

Rosina, do you really believe that Britain should ‘rule’ all the seas, and every country surrounded by sea?

All thine shall be the subject main,
And every shore it circles, thine.

That does sound like a pretty gross form of imperialism to me.

That was a reply to the opening post only.

Nope. Maybe the ban this ban that campaigners have got it all wrong, Rosina. I think that is more likely.

.

Germany did this with their national anthem after the war. It did begin ‘Deutschland, Deutschland über alles’ (‘Germany, Germany above all others’) and is now ‘ Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit’ (‘Unity and right and freedom) (Right, not rights)

Sorry Geekesse - a common misconception
“Über alles “ means “above everything else” and in that sense is identical to the popular hymn “I vow to thee my country, all earthly things above”
“Über alle ” would be “above everyone “

Reading the lyrics of 'Rule Britannia' I can't see anything that might offend - no doubt someone will put me right, but it seems to be a jolly song, full of pride for the strengths of Britain. It's also worth considering that the second line is 'Britannia RULE the waves', which is perhaps an exhortation rather than exhultation.

Would those of you enjoy Rule Brittania at the end of the proms enjoy it as much without watching the audience join in though?

Galaxy ?

I bought OH a tie with Mr Lazy (joke) on it. Unfortunately, from a short distance, Mr Lazy transformed into a large pink bum?

They ay not agree with them but they don't alf belt them out!

Rosina

Growstuff the Evening Standard front page news on the net has the item about the proms.
Ilovecheese there is no connection between the two items other than my feeling that the world has slipped slightly out of focus for me with these two news items - and I wondered if others felt the same.

Thank you for replying Rosina. I wanted to see the mug in context to understand the issue. My view is that Sainsbury was right to withdraw it.

I'm more ambivalent about "Rule Britannia". The words are jingoistic and an increasing number of proms-goers don't connect with them.

I loooove You ll never walk alone to hear a rousing chorus of that would be wonderful