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Feeling bewildered and wondering if I am wrong...

(92 Posts)
Rosina Sun 23-Aug-20 12:35:25

Have just read that 'Rule Brittania' is likely to be dropped from the Proms due to complaints from BLM supporters. 'Also read last week about Sainsbury's withdrawing a 'Matilda' theme mug which had words to the effect 'Suddenly a brilliant idea hit her hard'. This, apparently, could incite violence.
Just sitting here feeling that I have it all wrong, and need my outlook to change. Does anyone else feel as I do?

Ilovecheese Sun 23-Aug-20 12:40:25

I havn't heard anything about the proms and rule Brittania, but I have seen pictures of the mug in question. The slogan on the mug appeared as
"A GOOD IDEA

Hit her"

Which gives a different message than what was intended.

growstuff Sun 23-Aug-20 12:40:26

No, I don't feel as you do! Where did you read this?

Ilovecheese Sun 23-Aug-20 12:41:58

I don't see how the two things are connected ? The song and the mug?

luluaugust Sun 23-Aug-20 12:46:01

I think Rule Brittania and the quote on the mug are two different things. The last night of the Proms was always looked on as bit of fun at the end of weeks of serious music now what we thought was fun apparently isn't so its bound to be a problem. As for the mug, oh the joys of the English language! surprised nobody could see it was open to two different interpretations, wonder who designed it.

growstuff Sun 23-Aug-20 12:47:51

Ilovecheese

I havn't heard anything about the proms and rule Brittania, but I have seen pictures of the mug in question. The slogan on the mug appeared as
"A GOOD IDEA

Hit her"

Which gives a different message than what was intended.

Yes, I've just found the reference and pictures of the mug.

"A brilliant idea" and "Hit her" are on different lines and in different fonts. It looks as though they aren't connected.

The people using the mug are likely to be young and some won't be very sophisticated readers. Some might even not be familiar with Roald Dahl.

"Hit her" could give out a very different message from the original quote.

growstuff Sun 23-Aug-20 12:49:47

Sainsbury should have read "Eats shoots and leaves".

geekesse Sun 23-Aug-20 12:59:48

Much as I love the music, the words of ‘Rule Britannia’ and ‘Land of Hope and Glory’ are pretty poisonous, and I don’t ever sing them because I absolutely reject the imperialism they portray. (For the same reason, I won’t sing the first verse of ‘I Vow to Thee my Country’ - I do not give unquestioning loyalty to anything.) I think it would be a good thing to review a ‘tradition’ which no longer reflects the views of the majority of people in this country.

Germany did this with their national anthem after the war. It did begin ‘Deutschland, Deutschland über alles’ (‘Germany, Germany above all others’) and is now ‘ Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit’ (‘Unity and rights and freedom’)

Ok, I’ll go find my asbestos knickers and tin hat now...

PinkCakes Sun 23-Aug-20 13:06:08

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growstuff Sun 23-Aug-20 13:10:25

I don't think everything is ridiculous nowadays.

The debate about "Rule Britannia" at the proms has been going on for years. Surely it's a good thing that people question whether it does represent "our culture" (whatever that is).

Charleygirl5 Sun 23-Aug-20 13:10:52

PinkCakes I agree with every word you say.

Rosina Sun 23-Aug-20 13:15:02

Growstuff the Evening Standard front page news on the net has the item about the proms.
Ilovecheese there is no connection between the two items other than my feeling that the world has slipped slightly out of focus for me with these two news items - and I wondered if others felt the same.

Galaxy Sun 23-Aug-20 13:23:48

It's two very different discussions isnt it, the mug is a design flaw/oversight that just needs sorting out. A bit like the time I made unicorn cakes for the village fayre, it looked like I had made a tray of penis cupcakes.

geekesse Sun 23-Aug-20 13:28:17

Galaxy grin grin grin

eazybee Sun 23-Aug-20 13:33:29

Matilda was the first book by Roald Dahl that I actually disliked, and made me question some of his other writings, mainly a few of his short stories ( obviously not the one about the leg of lamb) and the Revolting Rhymes, which portrayed his dark side.
I understand why the mug is being withdrawn.

But I hope the rumour about Land of Hope and Glory is untrue, partly because I know all the words and enjoy singing along with massed choirs!

Have you listened to the words of La Marseillaise?

merlotgran Sun 23-Aug-20 13:36:33

I think a lot of people, like me, regard the rousing choruses at the Last Night of the Proms as a once a year celebration of music, pride and for me, a nostalgic link to my parents and grandparents.

I won't be at all surprised if certain songs are axed and I will be sad but not outraged.

Any bets on replacements? My money's on You'll Never Walk Alone as one of them. hmm

BlueBelle Sun 23-Aug-20 13:38:03

I don’t agree for one minute that everything is ridiculous I hadn’t heard about the proms but I thought the mug very concerning and people should really think more about words and wording
Times move on and what was commonplace and commonly used in one era isn’t now you have to move with the ages
pinkcakes would you call someone a ‘spaz’ very common in the 70s 80s or a downs child a ‘mongol’ of course not, it would be unthinkable to say now, words are ever changing it’s nothing to do with it being ‘ridiculous now’
When I was growing up the word queer was in vogue then it became a complete no no and now it is back in vogue used by those it would normally be aimed at, I m not sure whether it’s back in vogue for other to call someone though I m not sure

BlueBelle Sun 23-Aug-20 13:38:52

I loooove You ll never walk alone to hear a rousing chorus of that would be wonderful

growstuff Sun 23-Aug-20 13:40:50

Rosina

Growstuff the Evening Standard front page news on the net has the item about the proms.
Ilovecheese there is no connection between the two items other than my feeling that the world has slipped slightly out of focus for me with these two news items - and I wondered if others felt the same.

Thank you for replying Rosina. I wanted to see the mug in context to understand the issue. My view is that Sainsbury was right to withdraw it.

I'm more ambivalent about "Rule Britannia". The words are jingoistic and an increasing number of proms-goers don't connect with them.

luluaugust Sun 23-Aug-20 13:54:00

They ay not agree with them but they don't alf belt them out!

Illte Sun 23-Aug-20 13:57:04

Galaxy 😬

I bought OH a tie with Mr Lazy (joke) on it. Unfortunately, from a short distance, Mr Lazy transformed into a large pink bum😱

Ilovecheese Sun 23-Aug-20 13:57:20

Would those of you enjoy Rule Brittania at the end of the proms enjoy it as much without watching the audience join in though?

Rosina Sun 23-Aug-20 14:38:36

Reading the lyrics of 'Rule Britannia' I can't see anything that might offend - no doubt someone will put me right, but it seems to be a jolly song, full of pride for the strengths of Britain. It's also worth considering that the second line is 'Britannia RULE the waves', which is perhaps an exhortation rather than exhultation.

MawB2 Sun 23-Aug-20 14:47:22

.

Germany did this with their national anthem after the war. It did begin ‘Deutschland, Deutschland über alles’ (‘Germany, Germany above all others’) and is now ‘ Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit’ (‘Unity and right and freedom) (Right, not rights)

Sorry Geekesse - a common misconception
“Über alles “ means “above everything else” and in that sense is identical to the popular hymn “I vow to thee my country, all earthly things above”
“Über alle ” would be “above everyone

Baggs Sun 23-Aug-20 15:03:10

Nope. Maybe the ban this ban that campaigners have got it all wrong, Rosina. I think that is more likely.