Get back to the office! But why?

And perhaps those companies who dont take full advantage of wfh and pay sky high rents for city centre offices will be the ones who dont survive. Those who dont offer flexibility, those who dont embrace technology, those who are rigid in their approach, perhaps they will find their companies dont survive.

But people will have more time for themselves and could spend that extra time on a hobby or interest, doing voluntary work, spending more time with their families or just meeting people in a pub local to where they live.

I think its more about mental health. We are social animals and working in a team can be very beneficial to humans in terms of creativity, mental health, teaching us tolerance, sharing work loads, generating friends and relationships, changes your perspective, encourages learning etc etc
All this talk about Starbucks is missing the point. We are not lab rats or boffins working from boxes in isolation & wrecking our bodies because its not ergonomically set up at home. Physios are very happy about the number of people who currently have tech necks.

Each business will do what is best for itself, the employees will not be the ones deciding whether or not they continue working from home, their employers will make that decision.

Whether or not employees want to return to office based work will not be their decision to make, and they will not be to blame for any consequences for other businesses.

The jobs of the people working in coffee and sandwich shops will matter just as much as the steelworkers jobs, the miners jobs the typists and indeed, the lamplighters jobs.

That will not be fault of people who are currently working from home.

We and more particularly, the Government, need to think about how the country is going to react to the changes that are inevitably coming, not try to stop the changes, because that is impossible, as the Luddites discovered.

As has already been stated in this thread a job which has been carried out remotely from the main office for the last five months is a job that may well be an employment role that is very much under threat in the present economic situation.

An employee working from home can have cost savings to his employer by way of office space, lighting, heating etc if significant numbers are doing so. However, the real savings are to be had if those employment roles can be carried out overseas where wage and salary costs can be very much lower.

A job originally located at Canary Wharf but for the last five months has been carried out from someone's home in Basingstoke demonstrates it can just as easily be carried out remotely overseas.

Britain lost a substantial part of its manufacturing sector to lower cost countries and there has now been evidence given to employers that much office work could be transferred in the same manner. Those jobs may carry far higher skills than those in the lost manufacturing, but there is no reason why as education has greatly improved in many developing nations complex office role employment could not be met by those who reside in those developing nations.

Perhaps those that are now trying to persuade their employers that they can work unsupported at home rather than return to the office should be informing their employers of the need for them to return to those central offices so as to have readily available support and working collaboration of others.

Many should I feel think close on that when they state they do not wish to again take up the daily commute.

I would actually really like to see some statistics on where people are spending the money that they arent spending at the sandwich bars, Starbucks etc, if people are spending that locally then that may be a good thing. Perhaps it will be different businesses that flourish. It's also a terrible tactic, I am afraid no one will go back to the office if they prefer working from home, (and their company allows it) to save sandwich bars etc, it just doesnt work like that.

Ellianne

^Some people will have more time and money, both of which could be spent in different areas and, possibly, in different ways.^
And we should be willing to celebrate the innovators and new entrepreneurs who will take us there. Progress is key.

Yes, it always is and there will be entrepreneurs looking for opportunities ... just as there were when pubs started doing takeaways during lockdown.

Maybe SueDonim could give further examples.

Some people will have more time and money, both of which could be spent in different areas and, possibly, in different ways.
And we should be willing to celebrate the innovators and new entrepreneurs who will take us there. Progress is key.

MawB2

growstuff

I doubt very much their jobs could be offshored, due to their particular skills and knowledge.

That's what I was trying to say.

Not true, Growstuff
UNISYS looked into this some years ago and the dealbreaker was not the capabilities of the staff but (at the tine) internet speeds.
That would not be a problem these days.

But what if the people overseas don't have the skills? Obviously some jobs could be done anywhere in the world, but others couldn't because people don't have the specialised knowledge and skills. I gave the example of lawyers. Generally, only British-trained lawyers can operate in the UK (Scottish lawyers in Scotland). Obviously, people abroad could be trained in English law, but I doubt if many are. The lawyers themselves could choose to live abroad, but that's not really the same thing. They would almost certainly be paid the same, but just choose to have a home in another country.

Yes MawB2 you said it earlier loud and clear.
This thread has gone round in circles, sensible and valid comments about the complex interdependent nature of the economy or the practical implications of housing/ broadband/ computer access/MH and isolation are simply ignored in favour of the “Well I think everybody should work from home” type of comment.

MawB2

Galaxy

Actually mayb most people on this thread are saying that they think people should do what suits individuals and companies. It is actually those who are saying back to the office who are calling those who home work lazy or saying they are in some way letting down the key workers.

Are they?
I thought they were saying that the thousands of workers whose jobs are co-dependent on office etc workers going back to their place of business are at risk , and that includes independent shops, shoe menders, dry cleaners, sandwich bars, newsagents, “mini- markets”, office cleaners, caretaking staff, taxi drivers and rail and bus staff.

Some people are and I don't think anybody is denying it. However, change is happening anyway. Market forces may very well drive the jobs out to the suburbs, where people are living and working. Some people will have more time and money, both of which could be spent in different areas and, possibly, in different ways.

growstuff

*I doubt very much their jobs could be offshored, due to their particular skills and knowledge.*

That's what I was trying to say.

Not true, Growstuff
UNISYS looked into this some years ago and the dealbreaker was not the capabilities of the staff but (at the tine) internet speeds.
That would not be a problem these days.

I really resent the implication that people WFH are mainly loafers.

I can't blame you for resenting it.

It's actually very easy to monitor the work and output of people working at home, especially if they use a computer most of the time. Computers anywhere in the world can be set up on a network and a network manager can take control of the screen to "spy" on what people are doing.

If a project needs to be completed and deadlines need to be met, somebody will notice soon enough if they aren't.

Galaxy

Actually mayb most people on this thread are saying that they think people should do what suits individuals and companies. It is actually those who are saying back to the office who are calling those who home work lazy or saying they are in some way letting down the key workers.

Are they?
I thought they were saying that the thousands of workers whose jobs are co-dependent on office etc workers going back to their place of business are at risk , and that includes independent shops, shoe menders, dry cleaners, sandwich bars, newsagents, “mini- markets”, office cleaners, caretaking staff, taxi drivers and rail and bus staff.

I doubt very much their jobs could be offshored, due to their particular skills and knowledge.

That's what I was trying to say.

Three of my four have been WFH during this pandemic. I doubt very much their jobs could be offshored, due to their particular skills and knowledge. Two will be at their place of work part of the time, from next month.

The third has been told by her LA employer that they have no plans to bring anyone back into the office and in fact, prepandemic had already disposed of half of their offices and were encouraging WFH where possible. She was working seven long days a week to start with, trying to keep people safe and that task won’t be stopping any time soon. She was working until almost midnight last week, dealing with a big local outbreak of the virus that had been announced, so that people who had to attend their workplace would be protected the next morning.

My fourth child is a hospital doctor, obviously not WFH.

I really resent the implication that people WFH are mainly loafers.

But the question was "what makes it necessary for them to be in an office?"

Why is hot desking any different from taking your laptop and working 20 or 30 miles (or further) away? What is the nature of the work which makes it necessary to be within a specific office?

Perhaps someone could explain what all these hundreds of thousands of office workers do each day that makes it necessary for them to be in an office?
You'd be surprised at the didlfferent number of jobs. Canary Wharf alone employs enough office workers to fill the towns of Colchester or Cheltenham. The number of jobs advertised on the DLR and in the rags on the tube spells it out.

Lots of people working in offices are doing quite mundane tasks.

I don't mean that to be derogatory ... I was one of them for a while!

I worked in a very large government office in my home town

It was actually one of the best jobs I ever had. But it was more because of the people I worked with.

Evening shift which was mainly filled with students earning some extra cash.

My eldest daughter is now working there and she is desperate to go back for many reasons. But for now she is just working one day a week.

So many friends are made via work and she just misses the camaraderie and the escape from home. Not that she's unhappy at home! Hard to explain. There are a couple of good articles in The Guardian explaining pros and cons.

www.theguardian.com/money/2020/jul/14/end-of-the-office-the-quiet-grinding-loneliness-of-working-from-home

www.theguardian.com/society/2020/aug/18/working-from-home-is-a-luxury-many-renters-in-the-uk-can-ill-afford

It will work for some but not all

But if this is the way it's going we will have to adapt.

Actually mayb most people on this thread are saying that they think people should do what suits individuals and companies. It is actually those who are saying back to the office who are calling those who home work lazy or saying they are in some way letting down the key workers.

Perhaps someone could explain what all these hundreds of thousands of office workers do each day that makes it necessary for them to be in an office?

twinnytwin letters from insurance companies and banks have been cut and pasted for years, long before covid 19 appeared on the scene.

As regards dealing with banks etc I would imagine that there were thousands of people in the same position as you were during lockdown so I don't think that working from home can be blamed entirely.

You mention self employed art teachers with no money coming in. I don't see how people working from home affects them. The art schools will re-open soon and, provided they were self employed prior to 05/04/2019 there was the govt scheme, provided that they qualified.

I’ve saved loads since not going into Costa, although my friends are going again, I don’t feel safe to yet.

I’m used to coffee and toast at home now and the habit I created and the forced change of habit due to the virus upon me it’s hard to imagine me going back in there, I will one day but when I feel ready to.

A lot of the Costas etc in London near the offices in Liverpool Street are closed Saturdays so I’m guessing it’s the shops like that that must be suffering. Also the clothes shops in those areas offered for office staff.

The government scared us into submission and keeps going on about a second wave, then telling us to eat out, go to school go back to the office and expects everyone to forget the fear it created,

No positive statistics from wearing masks and well done for doing this.

This is a huge time of opportunity and learning to adjust to a new way of life for many of us. It will undoubtedly take a bit of adjustment and gradual acceptance but, in the end, it may be an improvement all round. I don't want a return to workplace until the school situation has been in operation for a while just in case any lockdowns occur and childcare has to be readjusted again.