Get back to the office! But why?

soda what GG is saying is that because some people physically have to go into work, then everyone should. That is beyond ludicrous. It’s actually quite authoritarian and totalitarian in fact.

I understand what Grannygravy is saying about other workers, office workers do seem to be making a meal of it in comparison. I'm sure there must be some middle way where there is some working from home and some office work.

I don’t give a fig about your employees GG that’s between you and them. You said you wanted people in general back in the office because others had to go into work to do their jobs. That’s mean and petty and frankly very silly

It’s like banging your head on a brick wall isn’t it? I’ll try once more - if the work can be done at home (with the obvious proviso of going in as and when necessary) and employer and employee are happy with this, why should anyone believe it shouldn’t be acceptable - or do some posters hate their fellow human beings so much they want them unnecessarily to spent thousands of pounds on commuting and hours and hours of time?

suziewoozie

GrannyGravy your point is nonsensical or mean spirited. Which is it?

It is neither, as an employer we have had to ensure that our business can continue during the pandemic and in the future.

The majority of our employees were happy to return to work full time as before, some are working from home and coming in when it is deemed necessary, this has been mutually agreed.

MaizieD if their offices are Covid-19 safe, if they have no underlying health issues which would put them in the clinically vulnerable category I cannot see why returning to the workplace is such a contentious issue.

A combination of home and office working would mean less people on public transport at any one time, less people in the office which would make it easier to be Covid-19 compliant.

That made me laugh Elegran.

GrannyGravy your point is nonsensical or mean spirited. Which is it?

Fishing boat skippers and crews have to go out to sea to do their work, but those who work in restaurants cooking the catch don't have to row after them in dinghies to buy it.

I certainly wouldn't find that a valid reason to have to go into an office when it wasn't necessary.

I'm only slightly quite glad my work means I don't have all these politics to deal with.

If shop workers, carers, NHS staff, Teachers, Police, Fire Services, Road sweepers. Rubbish collectors and many other employment sectors have to be in-situ to do their job is it unreasonable to expect office workers not to?

I'm failing to understand what you are saying here, GG13.

Are you saying that office workers should be back in their offices because all the other workers you mention have to be in situ?

GrannyGravy13

Crossed posts growstuff, agree regarding clinically vulnerable and the practicalities of hot dealing.

There is already a precedent with pregnant women who can't work if there is a case of rubella in the workplace.

MissAdventure

I've just been looking at acas advice about returning. It's quite vague, actually, because there are so many scenarios.

Mostly it's along the lines of communicating and trying to find a resolution that is acceptable to both the worker and employer.

That's exactly how it should be. In the end, it's a commercial decision. There was already a trend towards home working, even if only for a couple of days a week. Companies have been trying to save money on commercial properties and will do so, if they can. They have been forced to allow home working by Covid and many of them have found it works for them. Why on earth would they want to change that?

It's always better if there is a mutually agreed resolution rather than a confrontation, which is what Johnson and Cummings seem to want. They want to create divisions between those workers who have to work face-to-face and those who don't have to.

There has been a very interesting case of a worker telling colleges in a manufactoring plant that he was going to attend an illegal rave a few weeks back. That information got back to a supervisor in the plant and the rave made the national news.

On reporting for work on the Monday the supervisor ask the lad if he had attended the rave, to which he proudly answered yes.

He was then immediately suspended from working and sent home while a full disciplinary hearing was arranged for later that week. At that hearing, a line manager invoked the section of the Health & Safety at Work Act that deals with employees responsibilities while working and that their work or other actions while carrying out their duties must not endanger others in the vicinity of their work.

In attending the rave the employee it was alleged had exposed himself to a far higher risk of contracting Covid-19 and had therefore in his attendance at the workplace had exposed others to that same higher risk.

He has therefore been dismissed for gross misconduct in the workplace. It is also being reported that a trade union solicitor has told the now-former employee that she believes that the employer has acted correctly in their action.

One for many to consider I feel????

My eldest daughter works for the CS

She's been chomping at the bit to get back

Her job can't be done at home. Maybe in years to come but at present it's not possible

Her and her colleagues are all very ready to return to the office.

She's been back now for about 3 weeks, doing less hours but they've been told that it's all back to normal in mid September.

I've just been looking at acas advice about returning. It's quite vague, actually, because there are so many scenarios.

Mostly it's along the lines of communicating and trying to find a resolution that is acceptable to both the worker and employer.

MissAdventure

So, will workers be able to involve their unions if they feel forced into returning when it's not necessary?
Is it already happening?

I believe it is the Unite union along with the GMB that are bringing the test cases I referred to earlier in this thread before the industrial courts.

However, when those landmark cases will get heard in the current situation anybody can have a guess at.

Crossed posts growstuff, agree regarding clinically vulnerable and the practicalities of hot dealing.

MissAdventure

So, will workers be able to involve their unions if they feel forced into returning when it's not necessary?
Is it already happening?

I think taking employers to a tribunal could be problematic unless the employee has underlying health conditions which due to Covid-19 they need to shield.

When signing a contract of employment it normally has details of place of work, duties expected, times and hours of employment. Commuting has always been uncomfortable, sweaty bodies in the heat and colds in the colder months none of which deterred people from applying for jobs in City Centres, out of town Commerce Hubs or Industrial Estates.

If shop workers, carers, NHS staff, Teachers, Police, Fire Services, Road sweepers. Rubbish collectors and many other employment sectors have to be in-situ to do their job is it unreasonable to expect office workers not to?

More and more people I know are returning to their offices, some full time others on a part time basis, a few have been told that they will not be asked to return until next year. It is not a one size fits all situation.

MissAdventure

So, will workers be able to involve their unions if they feel forced into returning when it's not necessary?
Is it already happening?

I guess it depends what grounds they have. If the employer wants them back and can provide a Covid safe environment, the employees don't have a good reason to refuse.

Some companies (including some civil service offices) can't provide a Covid safe environment. The offices aren't big enough and "hot desking" isn't safe.

The government's own advice is for clinically vulnerable people to stay at home, where possible. An employer would have to have a good reason to justify why working at home would not be possible in such cases.

Whitewavemark2

I see that the government is bullying civil servants to return to the office.

Most civil service jobs are eminently suitable to be carried out at home, why on earth would any thinking person want to crowd the public transport just when the biggest danger of a second wave is beginning to rear its head.

My goodness they are an unpleasant bunch of people.

Dom wants a culture war.

growstuff,
Furret
You can always tell when someone has lost a argument or debate on this forum when those persons make one line nonsense posts or resort to personal comments.??

So, will workers be able to involve their unions if they feel forced into returning when it's not necessary?
Is it already happening?

Furret

Ad nauseam

I see that the government is bullying civil servants to return to the office.

Most civil service jobs are eminently suitable to be carried out at home, why on earth would any thinking person want to crowd the public transport just when the biggest danger of a second wave is beginning to rear its head.

My goodness they are an unpleasant bunch of people.