Get back to the office! But why?

We need a serious retraining programme to help those unempolyed into the industries of the future - particularly green technology and digital industries.

AGAA4

Grandad the cafes, pubs and restaurants in my area are open and seem to be thriving. I think you are referring to city life in mainly London. Innovative people will find another way to make money.They usually do.
This is an opportunity to live in a different way. Pre-covid life was certainly not a bed of roses for many.

Even innovative people will find it difficult to have an opportunity to find a different way of life with three to four million unemployed in a deeply recession-hit Britain.

Indeed that different way of life may well be to join that four million unemployed. However, do not let that concern you in any way AGAA4.

We are not going to return to our previous "normal".

We need to reinvent the world of work. We recognise that there are some very essential jobs which can never be done from home - bus driver, surgeon, supermarket shelf stacker, fire-fighter, factory worker, builder.

Most of these workers have continued to do their work, sometimes at considerable risk, throughout the pandemic and we should all appreciate their contribution to our health and safety and to our economy.

There are many other jobs which have been done successfully by workers based at home or perhaps just occasionally going to a place of work - architects, solicitors, clerical and administrative workers, researchers, writers, broadcasters, artists, designers. There is absolutely no good reason for people in these occupations to return to commuting on a crowded bus or train to an office if they can be just as productive working from home.

There are other types of workers who may have to face the fact that that in the future, their job prospects will be limited and the best option for many of them will be to retrain. The Liberal Democrats policy of lifelong learning means that in the future many will have to change career but that should be viewed as a challenge and supported by learning opportunities for people of all ages.

Grandad the cafes, pubs and restaurants in my area are open and seem to be thriving. I think you are referring to city life in mainly London. Innovative people will find another way to make money.They usually do.
This is an opportunity to live in a different way. Pre-covid life was certainly not a bed of roses for many.

vegansrock

People who are working from home are still working though. No one has forgotten those who cannot work from home. This thread is about office workers who can actually work from home, some of whom prefer it, as do some of their companies. Maybe this pandemic will change the nature of cities. There will be losers, but there will be winners as well .

I believe that the title of this thread is "Get Back To The Office! But Why".

That does not indicate that it is exclusively for discussion on those that have been working from home for they are the minority. The majority have been furloughed without any work whatsoever as their employer's companies were completely shut down.

Neither did the majority work in offices as substantial numbers of furloughed persons worked in cafes, pubs, restaurants, hotels, and the entertainment industry which many on this thread would see thrown into unemployment without a second thought.

And some of those claim to be Labour supporting in their political views.

People who are working from home are still working though. No one has forgotten those who cannot work from home. This thread is about office workers who can actually work from home, some of whom prefer it, as do some of their companies. Maybe this pandemic will change the nature of cities. There will be losers, but there will be winners as well .

Let's not forget either Luckyoldbeethoven all those people in whatever capacity have worked right through this pandemic. There is a lot of concentration on the plight of the poor office worker.

How lovely it would be to go back to the good old days pre-covid. People packed like sardines on trains or in traffic jams miles long. Tired before they have even started their day's work knowing they have a similar commute at the end of it.
Catching colds and flu in the office or on the commute to make life even better.
I can't see any sense at all in this when many people are working efficiently at home. They can work longer hours without the commute and are not as likely to take time off sick.
It would free up transport for others who have to go into work such as NHS staff.

Thank you Galaxy

Varian, I was on the thread grandad referred to and you said nothing of the kind. I am sure you dont need me to tell you that . The thread referred to was about the left in the UK and USA and is in the news and politics section, page 15 is what grandad is referring to. I think it's important when people say things about other posters that people have a way to check the truth. for you varian .

I wondered why this thread had got so long! I can't believe people (most of whom are retired I'd guess) are arguing that others should be forced back to work in offices so that rich owners/landlords of office buildings can protect their profits and cafes can continue to provide poorly paid with poor conditions employment for some poor s*ods!
Two out of three of my adult children are working at home for generous and wise employers. They work long hours but are pleased not to have to pay out huge amounts for travel on our our privatised, expensive, inefficient system. They didn't spend money on lunches etc out anyway.
We are indeed in line for a massive shake up aided by Brexit. Just as Brexit won't return us to 1950s Britain, hopefully the mates of our elitist, nepotist government won't hold all the cards. There are a lot of young people who are suddenly seeing the need for direct action, The demise /destruction of the trade unions was a disaster for pay and conditions, roll on change, it is sorely needed.

There you go again misquoting other posters Grandad

I have never suggested that trades unions were fifty years out of date. You made that up. I have said that trades unions are a good thing, and the many members of the Association of Liberal Democrat Trade Unionists would agree.

It was Labour Party supporter Polly Toynbee who referred to some trades unionists as "dinosaurs", not me.

varian

Some people who used to make sandwiches or coffee may have to retrain. There was a time when horse drawn carriage drivers had to retrain and they did.

And do you think that retraining and finding new jobs will be at all possible with Britain having three or possibly four million unemployed at best in the coming year?

What the government is trying to achieve I believe is to return the economy back to as near normal as possible prior to lockdown and then let changes inline with Covid-19 and Brexit slowly come into being.

The General Secretary of the TUC stated general agreement with the above policy in her interviews with the media today. It would seem that this Conservative government are being far more socialist than those who claim to be such on this forum.

growstuff

No employer would want to risk facing a class action if he/she were to try to force employers back to working in an office, unless a safe working environment could be provided.

Employers are the best judges as to whether employees have been working efficiently at home and the pandemic might have forced some changes in attitudes towards a more flexible way of working.

As long as any employer has carried out all that is reasonably possible to ensure the safety of the workforce as defined under the Health & Safety at Work Act there is little or no chance that legal action of any kind would be successful.

In a huge number of instances, it has been the insurers that have pushed employers to bring about the highest possible standards of protection against Covid-19 infection under the guidance of the Health & Safety Executive and consultancy Safety companies.

varian

If you go to work in an an office it is either because the work cannot be done at home, or because you prefer to work in the office or because your employer, in spite of the fact you can do the job from home, insists that you work in the office, in which case you need to get yourself a better trades union representative.

I thought you believed that trades unions and all that were members and supporters of them were fifty years out of date varian.

Now you are stating that workers should be members of trades unions. I must say that is a bit rich coming from a member of the LibDem Party whose new leader assisted the Tory Party in attempting to destroy those trade unions from 2010 until 2015.

If you go to work in an an office it is either because the work cannot be done at home, or because you prefer to work in the office or because your employer, in spite of the fact you can do the job from home, insists that you work in the office, in which case you need to get yourself a better trades union representative.

No employer would want to risk facing a class action if he/she were to try to force employers back to working in an office, unless a safe working environment could be provided.

Employers are the best judges as to whether employees have been working efficiently at home and the pandemic might have forced some changes in attitudes towards a more flexible way of working.

Some people who used to make sandwiches or coffee may have to retrain. There was a time when horse drawn carriage drivers had to retrain and they did.

If I were a commuter, I'd rather donate my travel-to-work costs directly to the benefit of Pret workers. The government couldn't care less about sandwich bar workers. It does, however, care about the income of the landlords of prime site office blocks. Personally, I'd rather safeguard my health, save hours a day on commuting and spend my money locally rather than be guilt-tripped into saving the investments of foreign oligarchs.

What's non-socialist about that?

Whitewavemark2
Did you have a memory lapse when referencing the Pret economy and forget that your a socialist. What else would you suggest these people do, sign on ?

Whitewavemark2 quote [I think that the point that is being missed is that work is proving more productive by those working from home.] End quote.

Have you any evidence to support the above statement???????

Whitewavemark2 Quote [Most have the choice whether to continue at home or go to the office.] End Quote.

The vast majority of furloughed workers have not even been working at home because their employer's businesses have been completely closed down. Those workers are gradually being informed to return to their place of employment as their employer's companies gradually return to what they hope will be pre-Covid levels.

Those who have been working from home are either being allowed to continue if they so wish, or if they work as part of a team being told to return to the office.

Whitewavemark2 Quote [The Pret economy is one of low pay and poor conditions. Why support such companies?] End Quote.

To those that work in Pret and all other high street food and coffee outlets, it is their employment supporting them and often their families. To just disparagingly disregard those workers and their employers is nothing short of disgusting.

And the above comes from someone who states they are socialist in their views. Just throw them out of work they will somehow manage.

Is that Starmer's Labour Party????

MawB2

varian

Most workplaces have tea/coffee making facilities. Why don't they take their own sandwiches? I did that for all the years I commuted to an office. It's no big deal. I know some folk can't cook but is there anyone incapable of making a sandwich?

In the same way that people can do their own cleaning, do their own decorating, do their own gardening, walk their own dog, mind their own children, make their own clothes, cook their own fish and chips, (probably) cut their own hair and tinker with their own car. .
On the other hand, if you are one of the millions or people whose job encompasses any of the above I expect you depend on the fact that many have neither the time, talent or inclination to do them.
I thought this thread was about the economy and anybody who cannot see the complex but apparently fragile interdependence of all its component parts has missed the point completely.

I think that the point that is being missed is that work is proving more productive by those working from home.

That individuals will make rational decisions relating to their risk.

They have benefited economically from working at home.

Most have the choice whether to continue at home or go to the office.

The Pret economy is one of low pay and poor conditions. Why support such companies?

Those being supported at home by excellent employers whose trust in their staff is ensuring ever more loyal and hard working staff.

That is the point.

varian

Most workplaces have tea/coffee making facilities. Why don't they take their own sandwiches? I did that for all the years I commuted to an office. It's no big deal. I know some folk can't cook but is there anyone incapable of making a sandwich?

In the same way that people can do their own cleaning, do their own decorating, do their own gardening, walk their own dog, mind their own children, make their own clothes, cook their own fish and chips, (probably) cut their own hair and tinker with their own car. .
On the other hand, if you are one of the millions or people whose job encompasses any of the above I expect you depend on the fact that many have neither the time, talent or inclination to do them.
I thought this thread was about the economy and anybody who cannot see the complex but apparently fragile interdependence of all its component parts has missed the point completely.

Most workplaces have tea/coffee making facilities. Why don't they take their own sandwiches? I did that for all the years I commuted to an office. It's no big deal. I know some folk can't cook but is there anyone incapable of making a sandwich?

SueDonim

There’s a very interesting article in the Financial Times today supporting continued WFH for those who wish to. It’s called Goodbye to the Pret Economy though it’s behind a paywall.

It suggest that companies like Pret could reinvent themselves by getting some vans and selling coffee and sandwiches to people working at home, a la ice cream van. Interestingly, it commented that there are more branches of Pret on Borough High St than in the whole of Wales.

That's an interesting idea. If you watch American tv series like Suits, there are always scenes with workers getting their morning coffee or their lunch from a food truck.