Vaccine - I’m seriously concerned about this

Alexa, setting this sort of precedent is dangerous for democracy and basic human rights. I have no problem with people choosing to be part of drug trials but this could be one big experiment on a mass of the population, many of whom will have no say in the matter.

I’m very much aware once this precedent is set it could be used to introduce other measures on a ‘temporary’ basis. I have no trust in this government at all.

I mean smallpox was an affliction, of course the vaccination was not an affliction

janeainsworth:
"What it doesn’t seem to say is that it’s ok to use an unlicensed vaccine because it’s been rushed through & isn’t fully tested, in order to suppress a virus mainly for societal reasons rather than for an individual’s benefit."

When the benefit to public health is great enough then there is less individual liberty. Smallpox vaccination was compulsory because it was a terrible affliction for the individual, worse than covid, and was also extremely infective.

Ayse, thanks I understand. It is a dangerous precedent in principle.

However these are unprecedented times.

Is the main concern that big Pharma is doing it, and probably competitively and for profit?

this, indeed.

www.hey.nhs.uk/patient-leaflet/unlicensed-off-label-medicines

Here’s another article. It sets out the reasons why a medicine may be unlicensed but still the right thing to prescribe (eg The medicine may be licensed only for adults, but in some circumstances it may be beneficial to prescribe it for a child)

What it doesn’t seem to say is that it’s ok to use an unlicensed vaccine because it’s been rushed through & isn’t fully tested, in order to suppress a virus mainly for societal reasons rather than for an individual’s benefit.

ayse What if vaccination becomes mandatory?

Some vaccinations already are.
Hepatitis B vaccination is mandatory for anyone doing ‘exposure-prone’ procedures, eg dentists and dental nurses.

I doubt if Covid vaccination could be made mandatory for the general population, but it could be for certain groups of workers or anyone wanting to travel.

Thnks for that link, janea, Ill have a look.

My gut instinct tells me to be very wary, though...

Oopsminty

A hypothyroid drug called Armour (NDT) is unlicensed in the UK.

Some NHS endocrinologists will prescribe it though

It's certainly been tested. That was all we used to use until the 70s and is still prescribed in the US.

There's a slight difference between a well established and proven drug, presumably with known side effects, and a rushed through vaccine, surely?

Maizie this doesn’t really answer your question, but it’s the GMC guidance about the use of unlicensed medications
www.gmc-uk.org/ethical-guidance/ethical-guidance-for-doctors/prescribing-and-managing-medicines-and-devices/prescribing-unlicensed-medicines
It might be (slightly) reassuring.

Taralee. Congratulations and enjoy ?. Thank you for the link to Global Citizen. I shall have a look.

What if vaccination becomes mandatory? I understand the NZ government is considering vaccinating all those who enter the country at the border!

I have a choice with flu vaccine, the pneumonia vaccine etc. I believe this is the thin end of the wedge especially as Sweden seems to be recovering from Covid without all the palava that we have experienced. Sweden did as badly as us with respect to older people but the general population seems to be ok.

A hypothyroid drug called Armour (NDT) is unlicensed in the UK.

Some NHS endocrinologists will prescribe it though

It's certainly been tested. That was all we used to use until the 70s and is still prescribed in the US.

Oopsadaisy4

Unlicensed does not mean untested.

What does it mean, then?

Extraordinary times call for extraordinary measures. As someone once said.

I agree that a rushed vaccine doesn't sound great but what else can be done?

Unlicensed does not mean untested.

Ayse Doctors have long been giving unlicensed drugs with an explanation to the patient and the patient’s signed consent.

I would not want to be a guinea pig for this godforsaken virus. Vaccines take on average 10 years to develop and the record was 4 years for a mumps vaccine in the 60's, according to this:

www.globalcitizen.org/en/content/how-is-covid-vaccine-developed-how-long/

Call me a cynic, but I don't trust a word coming out about this virus, since 90% of everything seems politically slanted. It's been a crazy 2020.

But, the reason I'm here at all is I just found out I'm going to be a first-time GRANDMA! My daughter and her husband told us this weekend. It's still too early to tell everyone, but I don't know any of you and I have to tell someone! smile

This could not have come at a better time. This year has proven to "change" people a bit, what with all that's going on. For me, I was feeling a bit of depression, mainly because of the day in and day out Covid talk.

Now I have something happy to think about! Yayyy

I would like to spend time perusing this.

I think it has been mentioned In another post but, I cannot understand the mention of allowing other medical professionals to administer the vaccine — midwives, nurses, pharmacists etc. They have always done this. Just another example of the ‘powers that be’ not knowing what goes on in real life.

Chilling indeed- and I ain't having it. I have always been pro vaccination for children, and have had the flu vaccine a few times - but I am sorry, I do NOT trust this Government one little bit, and I will refuse the vaccine until proper reassurance from Independent sources are clearly and unequivocally given.

Thanks for posting - this is chilling.

Hi Jeanainsworth, I didn’t do the summary, just pasted it in total from a message I received. Thus asking for comments. I’m hoping there are some medics out there who might read and comment

Alexa, that’s not really the point I’m making. I think it’s a dangerous precedent to set, apart from using unlicensed medicines. There were huge problems caused by thalidomide in the sixties which was licensed. The pill had hosts of problems attached over a huge number of years. Every drug has side effects and to be given something not rigorously tested is just asking for unforeseen difficulties.

Thanks for flagging this up and summarising for us Ayse.
My initial reaction is that it is playing with fire.
But safety is not the only issue - efficacy is important too. What is the point of putting the population at risk with an unsafe vaccine, if it doesn’t work anyway?
I’d like to see the response of the BMA & similar organisations before commenting further.

Thanks Notspagetti. I’d welcome any comments either positive or negative