What does a right wing government mean?

Brexit was always going to be a tearing up of the rule book exercise by its very nature. Under our first past the post electoral system the electorate polled in favour of that and now "that" is what we have.

Simple as that.

MayBee70

I don’t think ordinary people have been alienated. I think that ordinary people that are racist and extremely right wing feel empowered. And that’s what terrifies me at the moment.

I agree with you. I think that there has always been a racist and right-wing element in the UK (as elsewhere), but they're in a minority. A series of circumstances have meant that we have a government which wants to appease them to cover their own backs.

I also think that traditionally the British have been tolerant and have believed in free speech. People have grumbled about whatever government is in power, but I don't ever remember one which has just ripped up the rule book and I truly believe it's getting dangerous.

Johnson has now thrown a dead cat onto the table in the form of a Brexit Festival.

What larks!

I see another junior minister has resigned. The trouble with resignations is that it is largely the more decent ones who go which is having the effect of concentrating the rubbish.

www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2020/09/boris-johnson-s-trump-style-assault-british-institutions-threat-democracy

Martin Fletcher, writing in the New Statesman, says "Boris Johnson’s Trump-style assault on British institutions is a threat to democracy. The government is waging a destructive war against the BBC, the civil service and the judiciary."

I don’t think ordinary people have been alienated. I think that ordinary people that are racist and extremely right wing feel empowered. And that’s what terrifies me at the moment.

I was.

Grandad1943

M0nica

The fact that struggle brings change does not mean that things improve, change can make things far, far worse. Look at the Middle East.

M0nica, there was no outright struggle for change in the middle east as what pressure for change existed was suppressed by the dictators of the Region.

However change by way of the Iraq war was imposed on the region by Democratic nations which for Britains part was directed by what was a supposedly left wing government (which was in reality right-wing) of Tony Blair.

However, I do agree with you that the war certainly did not improve life for very many in the region which is a statement that many of the people of the region would agree with in these times should they ever now be given the chance.

I had assumed MOnica was referring to the Arab Spring, which certainly was a grass roots struggle for change and was the origin of the present day trouble in Syria and Iraq.

M0nica

The fact that struggle brings change does not mean that things improve, change can make things far, far worse. Look at the Middle East.

Yes I agree with that statement obviously.

M0nica

Not that he lost, Whitewave, that is playing that lowest of political tricks quoting someone's comments entirely out of their immediate context. What I wrote was 'Corbyn's battalions lost the election because they too represented to the voter all that was vile in politics' , which is something entirely different .

OK - but not sure of your point though.

M0nica

The fact that struggle brings change does not mean that things improve, change can make things far, far worse. Look at the Middle East.

M0nica, there was no outright struggle for change in the middle east as what pressure for change existed was suppressed by the dictators of the Region.

However change by way of the Iraq war was imposed on the region by Democratic nations which for Britains part was directed by what was a supposedly left wing government (which was in reality right-wing) of Tony Blair.

However, I do agree with you that the war certainly did not improve life for very many in the region which is a statement that many of the people of the region would agree with in these times should they ever now be given the chance.

The fact that struggle brings change does not mean that things improve, change can make things far, far worse. Look at the Middle East.

Not that he lost, Whitewave, that is playing that lowest of political tricks quoting someone's comments entirely out of their immediate context. What I wrote was 'Corbyn's battalions lost the election because they too represented to the voter all that was vile in politics' , which is something entirely different .

M0nica

But what you will never realise is that Corbyn's battalions lost the election because they too represented to the voter all that was vile in politics and given the choice between two cesspits the voters chose the fosse septique because it sounded better in French (or do I mean Latin).

We need to remember that governments are voted in by the electorate and if the electorate decide they prefer one party to another, the another has to learn to live with that and work out what they need to do to winthe confidence of the voter.

Currently both parties act as if they do not realise that the electorate exists and that life is just one long existential struggle between two opposing ideologies and the electorate are just collateral damage.

I couldn't careless about the parties, but as a member of the electorate, I would like to have a government that is aware we exist

That was a big jump and assumption from my post to conclude that I didn’t realise that Corbyn lost the election!

I’m not sure of the evidence that the political parties act as if the voter doesn’t exist. My local MP certainly doesn’t behave like that and is very actively involved in local issues and helping his constituents.

Where I do agree is that fact that the country is divided as never before. Since 2016 I agree there has been an existential struggle between ideologies. Who was it said that struggle brings change?

But that is not in itself a bad thing. It is an uncomfortable thing, an unsettling thing. It could resolve either peacefully or violently. Let us hope it is not the latter. But it will be resolved and I hope fervently that the time of division and hate will be over.

M0nica the only alternative to a democratic government is a dictatorship usually based upon a one-party Nationalist government were no other political party is allowed to exist.

So, M0nica do you believe that a dictator nationalist government would be better for Britain than the elected democratic system that this nation has. For in that, will be the only way adversarial political debate will not exist in Britain.

But what you will never realise is that Corbyn's battalions lost the election because they too represented to the voter all that was vile in politics and given the choice between two cesspits the voters chose the fosse septique because it sounded better in French (or do I mean Latin).

We need to remember that governments are voted in by the electorate and if the electorate decide they prefer one party to another, the another has to learn to live with that and work out what they need to do to winthe confidence of the voter.

Currently both parties act as if they do not realise that the electorate exists and that life is just one long existential struggle between two opposing ideologies and the electorate are just collateral damage.

I couldn't careless about the parties, but as a member of the electorate, I would like to have a government that is aware we exist

This is what meant centre left and right are beginning to fear.

We can't now escape the conclusion that the Cummings/Johnson creature is just tapping its fingers, waiting impatiently for the shortages, the misery, the riots, so that it can jump in with the suppression of rights, the silencing of dissent and the final dissolution of democracy.

I’ve read through this thread Monica, but I can’t see what has prompted you to say you are thinking of leaving again ? I’m not being contentious by the way

M0nica

Of course politics is adversarial and can be very nasty but as but at times politics gets so low that it has it no longer has anything to do to do with good governance, principle or the improvement of people's lives. This alienation is shown by the decreasing participation in elections and parties loosing seats intheir heartlands.

It is the the extent to which most ordinary people are utterly alienated by politics and the political process that worries me and how politicians now are so busy arguing with each other that they are barely aware that they rely on us to be in Parliament.

In over 60 years I have never known a time when most people's natural suspicion of anyone in power has sunk to such levels of total contempt. That you cannot see this Whitewave and Maizie shows how bad it has become.

Oh I can see that very clearly which is why I am so alarmed.

Because people are so disaffected and contemptuous it has the affect of turning people off and they cease to have any interest. Which has allowed actions by this current government never before contemplated by any government, like taking power away and politicising the judiciary.

However, I do not agree that it is because politicians argue. Democracy is the process of debate. Without that we are stuffed, but that was the very thing Johnson tried to do when he prorogued last autumn. It took the power of the court to rule it illegal and in doing so defended the common man. The voter is also aware of the lies that spew forth along with the the breaking of rules. It won’t wash. That is where politics has become so low, it has nothing with the sort of debate that progresses democracy.

Of course politics is adversarial and can be very nasty but as but at times politics gets so low that it has it no longer has anything to do to do with good governance, principle or the improvement of people's lives. This alienation is shown by the decreasing participation in elections and parties loosing seats intheir heartlands.

It is the the extent to which most ordinary people are utterly alienated by politics and the political process that worries me and how politicians now are so busy arguing with each other that they are barely aware that they rely on us to be in Parliament.

In over 60 years I have never known a time when most people's natural suspicion of anyone in power has sunk to such levels of total contempt. That you cannot see this Whitewave and Maizie shows how bad it has become.

M0nica

I am beginning to remember why I left GN in the first place.

What is needed more than anything else if a country is to have honest a just government is politicians who are prepared to respect their opponents and understand that although they may profoundly disagree on how it should best be done, all have at heart the good governance of their country and prosperity for all its inhabitants.

It is the loss of this respect that has turned both our major parties into empty hollow husks of what they used to be. Sadly, the only thing they seem interested in doing is shouting abuse at each other and opposing every idea the other party has.

I have no confidence in either of them. They are as alike as Tweedledum and Tweedle Dee. In fact the similarities with the end of Animal Farm where the difference between pigs and man became indistinguishable, applies only too well to our two morally diminished political parties.

I would have hoped that a forum like Gransnet, with its membership of older and wiser women would be capable of rising above the stinking mess of our two main parties and join hands and discuss political matters with mutual understanding, even while having profound disagreements. but sadly it seems t is clear that when it comes to this aspect of politics there is gender equality. Both sexes are joined in the gutter.

Maizie you queried my comment that the items mentioned in the OP could almost equally apply to most parties and my reply that you needed to see yourself as others see you. You felt the parties employed people to do that.

They may think they have but if they were really to go out and find out just what people think of them they would not be acting like they are now. I have friends on both sides of the political divide who in the past have been close to being the type of voters who would vote for a donkey if the rosette was the right colour. They are all reeling in horror from what their parties have become and how they behave. No party has yet faced up to how those outside their party - and many inside now see them. They need to do that, and show humility

I have been interested in politics since I was 4. I have never felt so alienated from politics, politicians and the main political parties. I am almost in tears as I wrtite.

I am going back into hibernation for another six months.

I think by reading your post you might prefer to avoid the politics threads for a time. Apparently you have only just returned from a break for whatever reason.

By its very nature politics is a game that is adversarial, and if you are finding it upsetting I think you do better to avoid them.

Maizie you queried my comment that the items mentioned in the OP could almost equally apply to most parties and my reply that you needed to see yourself as others see you. You felt the parties employed people to do that.

What on earth are you talking about, MOnica? I felt the parties employed people to do that? Not my words, I'm afraid..

If you think that there was ever a golden age of politicians respecting each other and having the best interests of the country at heart I suggest that you try reading some 19th C Hansard. It never happened.

Don't go MOnica. Your well thought out and measured comments are appreciated. Many of us on here can learn from you. Stay and make changes in your calm and intelligent way so that reasoned debate can take place.
Come on folks we can surely debate and discuss politely so that we don't lose the good 'uns.

I am beginning to remember why I left GN in the first place.

What is needed more than anything else if a country is to have honest a just government is politicians who are prepared to respect their opponents and understand that although they may profoundly disagree on how it should best be done, all have at heart the good governance of their country and prosperity for all its inhabitants.

It is the loss of this respect that has turned both our major parties into empty hollow husks of what they used to be. Sadly, the only thing they seem interested in doing is shouting abuse at each other and opposing every idea the other party has.

I have no confidence in either of them. They are as alike as Tweedledum and Tweedle Dee. In fact the similarities with the end of Animal Farm where the difference between pigs and man became indistinguishable, applies only too well to our two morally diminished political parties.

I would have hoped that a forum like Gransnet, with its membership of older and wiser women would be capable of rising above the stinking mess of our two main parties and join hands and discuss political matters with mutual understanding, even while having profound disagreements. but sadly it seems t is clear that when it comes to this aspect of politics there is gender equality. Both sexes are joined in the gutter.

Maizie you queried my comment that the items mentioned in the OP could almost equally apply to most parties and my reply that you needed to see yourself as others see you. You felt the parties employed people to do that.

They may think they have but if they were really to go out and find out just what people think of them they would not be acting like they are now. I have friends on both sides of the political divide who in the past have been close to being the type of voters who would vote for a donkey if the rosette was the right colour. They are all reeling in horror from what their parties have become and how they behave. No party has yet faced up to how those outside their party - and many inside now see them. They need to do that, and show humility

I have been interested in politics since I was 4. I have never felt so alienated from politics, politicians and the main political parties. I am almost in tears as I wrtite.

I am going back into hibernation for another six months.

Varian I agree; it is quite scary the influence Murdoch has over who will be PM.