Gransnet forums

News & politics

What does a right wing government mean?

(103 Posts)
Whitewavemark2 Wed 02-Sep-20 08:26:53

Someone posted that they don’t think that Johnson’s government is right wing enough, and I find that interesting.

I wonder what others consider a right wing government is, and what sort of policies it would/should follow.

I’ll kick off the debate with the following.

A right wing government is more authoritarian than a centrist or left wing government.

It is intolerant of other sources of power like the judiciary or civil service, media, academia, etc.

It tends to centralise power.

It may or may not be populist.

It believes in the “natural order” of things, and that the individual is paramount.

It does not believe in “society”

That’s a start

Humbertbear Wed 02-Sep-20 08:36:43

The back benchers want an end to furlough and all support to businesses, so that would be right wing.

Illte Wed 02-Sep-20 08:46:10

No, I think you have to revisit your statements.

A number of world "left wing governments" are extremely authoritarian, intolerant (to put it mildly) of other sources of pier and totally centralised. Vietnam, Cambodia, Russia, China to name a few.

Historically extreme left wing government has had pretty much the same outcomes as extreme right wing government. The circle closes.

Illte Wed 02-Sep-20 08:46:52

power power. Were not off to Brighton!

Whitewavemark2 Wed 02-Sep-20 08:53:13

Illte

No, I think you have to revisit your statements.

A number of world "left wing governments" are extremely authoritarian, intolerant (to put it mildly) of other sources of pier and totally centralised. Vietnam, Cambodia, Russia, China to name a few.

Historically extreme left wing government has had pretty much the same outcomes as extreme right wing government. The circle closes.

Yes I agree with what you are saying, extreme left wing are indeed authoritarian, but I can’t see how that nullifies my argument.

This thread is in the context of a poster not thinking this government is right wing enough, and I am wondering what “enough” is.

Illte Wed 02-Sep-20 08:56:22

Oh right. Ah well I was just exercising my brain (a bit) 🙂

Whitewavemark2 Wed 02-Sep-20 08:58:14

Illte

Oh right. Ah well I was just exercising my brain (a bit) 🙂

🙂

growstuff Wed 02-Sep-20 09:11:58

There isn't a universal definition of "right wing". Many right wingers are libertarian. The don't respect restrictions placed on their personal freedom, even if by a democratically elected government. They tend to have little regard for society as a concept, especially the weak, although many right-wing groups claim to care about some vulnerable groups as a political tool. They see the "establishment" (especially if it's guided by liberal values) as undermining their own personal interests.

growstuff Wed 02-Sep-20 09:17:47

"Left-wing" has become meaningless in the context of Russia and China. After the take over by an extreme left-wing regime, the government has to be authoritarian because the most privileged wouldn't voluntarily give up their wealth and power.

The same is true of authoritarian right-wing regimes. Liberal dissent has to be stamped out because few are actually elected democratically. Even the Nazis were never elected by an overall majority of the people, so they changed laws so they could exert power and used violence and fear.

EllanVannin Wed 02-Sep-20 09:17:53

I have a far-left ideology when it comes to social equality .

I can understand being both far-right and also far-left, which is what politics are made up of, with nothing in the centre.

Both areas of politics cause unrest---Capitalism and Communism.

growstuff Wed 02-Sep-20 09:19:44

EllanVannin

I have a far-left ideology when it comes to social equality .

I can understand being both far-right and also far-left, which is what politics are made up of, with nothing in the centre.

Both areas of politics cause unrest---Capitalism and Communism.

There is no country in the world which is totally capitalist or totally Communist.

Left and right have become increasingly meaningless.

Whitewavemark2 Wed 02-Sep-20 09:38:07

growstuff having now trashed my OP, I would be quite interested in how you would describe a government as what was traditionally described as right wing.

I think too we have to separate economics from policies (as far as possible)

EllanVannin Wed 02-Sep-20 09:39:11

I watched a programme the other night about people who swapped houses/jobs etc for the week and it confirmed my thoughts at what must be happening to hundreds of people.
People who are disenfranchised because of lack of funds, it's wrong.

A young man in Newcastle who'd wanted to go far with his knowledge of physics but was held back because of the expense of attending university etc. so had been stuck in a low-paid job with no prospects until the family he swapped homes with came to his rescue and helped along the route of a refresher course at uni. to get on to better things.

More of these programmes should be shown with further help from wealthy people in kick-starting someone else's life. Afterall, it's capitalists who hold the purse-strings so it's up to them to help the working class instead of ignoring and destroying any hope in those who are willing to further their own lives.

growstuff Wed 02-Sep-20 10:19:21

Whitewavemark2

growstuff having now trashed my OP, I would be quite interested in how you would describe a government as what was traditionally described as right wing.

I think too we have to separate economics from policies (as far as possible)

I don't think I did trash your OP, did I? I haven't disagreed with you, although it's probably true that extreme left-wing governments have many of the same characteristics. I was trying to add to your definition.

The definition of "wings" in politics has changed over time.

Barmeyoldbat Wed 02-Sep-20 10:20:33

Cambodia has a dictator, you cannot describe it as right wing by any means, you just have to do as you are told. The elections are rigged with opposition leaders jailed or they leave the country. You HAVE to vote and the system is such that if you don't then you are denied medical treatment and education. The government land grab and send out the tanks and army against any strikers. It is truly awful how the country is run.

Whitewavemark2 Wed 02-Sep-20 10:32:43

growstuff

Whitewavemark2

growstuff having now trashed my OP, I would be quite interested in how you would describe a government as what was traditionally described as right wing.

I think too we have to separate economics from policies (as far as possible)

I don't think I did trash your OP, did I? I haven't disagreed with you, although it's probably true that extreme left-wing governments have many of the same characteristics. I was trying to add to your definition.

The definition of "wings" in politics has changed over time.

Oh I see. I got the wrong end if the stick for which I apologise.

What I am desperate to know though is what those who traditionally vote conservative will see as a step too far.

Only I’m getting a tad panicky about what is happening at the moment.

An example is this announcement of a review of Administrative Law. I find it extremely concerning.

Would those voting conservative find that worrying?

growstuff Wed 02-Sep-20 10:52:28

EV Why did the expense of uni hold him back? He could take out loans the same as everybody else. It's often because people from insecure financial backgrounds are debt averse and don't understand how student loans are repaid.

In any case, I don't agree that wings in politics are necessarily to do with wealth. Social attitudes are important too and many of the so-called traditional working class have socially right-wing views. That's what UKIP/BP and other right wing groups exploit.

Lucca Wed 02-Sep-20 10:59:23

Think your question OP was quite simple and clear but doubt you will receive any response from those at whom it was aimed ..........

MaizieD Wed 02-Sep-20 11:06:59

More of these programmes should be shown with further help from wealthy people in kick-starting someone else's life. Afterall, it's capitalists who hold the purse-strings so it's up to them to help the working class instead of ignoring and destroying any hope in those who are willing to further their own lives.

Do you realise, EV, that here you are advocating a return to pre Welfare State paternalism. You seem to be saying that the poor should be dependent on the charity of the rich.

Do you not think that the State should play a role in releasing its citizens' potential?

Of course, this raises the question of what is meant by 'the State'.

Is it the province of wealthy individuals who see 'the rest' as workers making their products and consumers of the same? Where those with a modicum of empathy trickle down some of their wealth to benefit the deserving poor?

Or is it the entire body of its constituent peoples which works, non judgementally, to support them all to their mutual benefit through the provision of healthcare, education and a belief that its resources should be shared?

MaizieD Wed 02-Sep-20 11:08:36

Sorry, deviating from the OP, but, like Lucca, I feel that no answers will be forthcoming from those who want 'more right wing'.

Whitewavemark2 Wed 02-Sep-20 12:11:52

MaizieD

Sorry, deviating from the OP, but, like Lucca, I feel that no answers will be forthcoming from those who want 'more right wing'.

I think you are right. What I cant understand is why?

If they really believe in what the government is doing why on Earth aren't they willing to defend them or explain why they believe in what they do.

Luckygirl Wed 02-Sep-20 12:16:14

No such thing as society.
Wedded to free market and privatisation.
Do not understand the meaning of the word service.

ExD Wed 02-Sep-20 12:22:00

Where did the expressions come from in the first place?
I mean Right/Left - it doesn't mean a thing really does it? Right of where, Left of what?

I imagine originally when we had a 2 party system - there was Liberalism and Conservatism which seemed to sum it up quite neatly. Then we got the rest .......

Gwyneth Wed 02-Sep-20 12:32:11

Neither do I understand why you can’t go to uni if you’re not wealthy. I am certainly not well off but both my sons went to uni. They just have to start paying their loans back when they are earning over 30k (I think that’s the amount stated). There are also various scholarships and financial help available for low income families and support for families where the student is the first in their family to go to uni. Schools are very at good at pointing families towards the support they need to access uni. The only other observation I would make is that both my sons had to do some part-time work to help support themselves but surely that’s no bad thing!!

varian Wed 02-Sep-20 12:52:10

The right wing attitude to work and renumeration is a key feature.

You have to give huge pay rises and bonuses and reduce taxes in order to incentivise those who are already very well off.

But you will encourage the poor to work harder if you reduce their pay and cut benefits.