Could you imagine Mrs Thatcher breaking the law?

You know your history Bodach but I think the other views are too entrenched in folklore now, so doubt it will be accepted by Paddyanne.

cake was not as we know it, but a completely different concoction!
Brioche.

Lovely stuff.

(why the capitalization?)

It's to make sure you hear in case you're a bit deaf, Bodach.

In those days we were TOGETHER fighting a COMMON FOE, as in WW1, Paddyann.

Absolutely spot on Bodach! I agree with all you've written. I do resent Churchills lack of recognition for the men of B.M at the end of th war, and I realise it was political, but even so! But I certainly do not consider him as evil!!! I recognise too that he was great war leader and lead this country to victory where others would have capitulated. What people are alleged to have said is like Marie Antoinette and eating cake! It was in fact Marie Theresa wife of Louis 1Vth! and cake was not as we know it, but a completely different concoction!

paddyanne

Bodach I can assure you I got that information from FAMILY who were at that demo.Its been whitewashed as much of history has ,in favour of the MUCH hated Churchill over the years.Not just for the george Sq bebacle but for the 1000's of SCOTTISH soldiers abandoned in the Dunhirk campaign and the remarks made by him about them being "NO GREAT LOSS" My uncles were all AT Dunkirk ,all came home damaged physically or mentally .Churchill wasn't the GREAT leader he was claimed to be .Maybe read some REAL history about the evil man and the millions of deaths he was responsible for.Oh and Sparkling I'm Scottish NOT English and I ;m not really interested in English history....except where it has affected the running of MY country to its detriment .That sadly has been a lot and hopefuly not for much longer .

Just because you got your information from "FAMILY" (why the capitalization?) who were at that demo does not mean that it is correct. These were myths that were spread in the aftermath of the events in 1919, and any reading of the official records - or even of the Glasgow newspapers of the time, which carried photographs of some of the kilted soldiers present - will confirm that they were myths. The same applies to your new allegations about the fate of the 51st Highland Division in the Dunkirk campaign. My uncle was a 19-year old private in the Seaforth Highlanders, who was taken prisoner at St Valery, and spent the rest of the war as a POW in Poland. He never recovered his full health; but in the many conversations we had about the campaign, he never once criticised the decision to have the 51st support the French armies fighting to the south of the BEF's main position. Following the main evacuation from Dunkirk, the Navy went to evacuate the 51st from St Valery, but were prevented from doing so by a combination of bad weather and the speed of the German advance. The 51st were not chosen because they were Scottish - it could have been any of the divisions - they just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. And FINALLY (I can use capitals too) You are almost 200 years out in ascribing the "no great loss" comment to Churchill. These remarks were actually made by Major (later General) Wolfe, 5 years after he had fought in the Battle of Culloden, in a letter proposing the raising of Highland Companies to fight the French in North America. Based on his recent experience of fighting these same men, he recommended them as being fierce, hardy, used to wild country - and "if they fall, no great mischief". By parroting these myths, you devalue what you have to say elsewhere.

Just one more weary threat, intimidation and blackmail on top of the other! Well, at least we won't have the chlorinated chicken. Perhaps the US needs to remember that apart from Poland, we are the only country in Europe that actually pays its full contribution to NATO! (Integrity, fulfilling an international obligation?!!!! - NOT) Perhaps we could threaten to pull out and leave our portion for Europe or the US to pick up?! Mind you, does Joe Biden know what NATO is?!! 9/11 seemed to have escaped him!!! I can't believe that all the US can offer as President are two old geriatrics both pushing 80!!!

haporthrosie ?it was very nice of you, and I certainly wasn’t offended by a rather nice emoji, just wondered why I deserved them......all is clear now, so thank you.I will stand you a drink in The Argy Bargy Bar ( on chat threads.)

Callistemon

Does Trump understand it?

Makes no difference, it has to be ratified by congress

Does Trump understand it?

Callistemon

^I cannot exaggerate the bewilderment in Washington^

To be fair, Whitewave, Washington seems to exist in a permanent state of bewilderment these days.

Did you see the representative in 4 news last night?

What he said was that the Irish issue is bi-partisan in the states and a trade deal will be refused by all parties. If Johnson doesn’t understand that then he is as we know to be true an idiot.

I cannot exaggerate the bewilderment in Washington

To be fair, Whitewave, Washington seems to exist in a permanent state of bewilderment these days.

lemongrove sorry if the flowers offended or seemed soppy. In these times it's such a relief to read words of sense re. the EU, and your post about other countries re-working agreements (it ended with 'forgive my wry smile'), along with the good sense jaberwock has written - the flowers were just my way of saying 'thank you.'

I'd already written more than I should have done given the arthritis in my hands so the flowers seemed the best I could do.

Agree 100% with you and Jaylucy about Mrs. T. Not always her greatest fan but she'd come through on this, I believe.

Well said Jaylucy - we do indeed need offending. Very perceptive.

Jon Sopel
@BBCJonSopel

I cannot exaggerate the bewilderment in Washington over what UK government is doing over #GoodFridayAgreement. Why, a senior official asked me, is Britain doing something that will lead to a no deal Brexit, and result in no trade deal with the US either?

Callistemon

^Oh and Sparkling I'm Scottish NOT English and I ;m not really interested in English history.^


That could be described as one of your more daft statements, paddyann!

Although, you must admit...there are a lot to choose from.

www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2020/09/11/cummings-and-johnson-are-breaking-down-the-entire-notion-of Democratic legitimacy.

The only reason I can possibly think of that people aren’t screaming from the rooftops is that they simply don’t understand the implication if everything that is happening.

View from Washington:

The UK is in a very weak negotiating position. Not only is it much more dependent on the EU for trade and the hopes of a UK-US deal have evaporated, but it has been hit economically, by the pandemic, harder than any partners. ~AA

Oh and Sparkling I'm Scottish NOT English and I'm not really interested in English history.

Why's that daft Callistemon? Seems pretty factual to me... paddyanne can be interested or not interested in whatever she likes.

Oh and Sparkling I'm Scottish NOT English and I ;m not really interested in English history.


That could be described as one of your more daft statements, paddyann!

The Royal Norfolks and the Ox and Bucks were also left behind paddyann. My mother's cousin was killed when the O &B were surrounded and were fought to a standstill! My father was killed while serving in Bomber command, and another uncle killed in North Africa. It wasn't only Scottish families who suffered loss during that war.

Bodach I can assure you I got that information from FAMILY who were at that demo.Its been whitewashed as much of history has ,in favour of the MUCH hated Churchill over the years.Not just for the george Sq bebacle but for the 1000's of SCOTTISH soldiers abandoned in the Dunhirk campaign and the remarks made by him about them being "NO GREAT LOSS" My uncles were all AT Dunkirk ,all came home damaged physically or mentally .Churchill wasn't the GREAT leader he was claimed to be .Maybe read some REAL history about the evil man and the millions of deaths he was responsible for.Oh and Sparkling I'm Scottish NOT English and I ;m not really interested in English history....except where it has affected the running of MY country to its detriment .That sadly has been a lot and hopefuly not for much longer .

Which three words would people use to describe the government?


do you want us all banned from GN?

At least it would have been an intelligent debate.

Pantglas2

I’d have paid good money to see that too Growstuff! I suspect Starmer would be too gentlemanly to cope though - she rarely thought any man was her equal and regularly gave them short shrift!

I think she'd have the upper hand too, although she might have pushed Starmer to new highs. At the moment, the only challenge he has is to supervise a petulant toddler.

We all knew where we stood with Thatcher. When she was defeated, it was because people had had enough of so-called Thatcherite policies - and, of course, Blair was the new kid on the block.

I think it's all about personalities now, although I do think that ploy us wearing a bit thin. Can anybody actually list any "Johnsonite" policies? Which three words would people use to describe the government?

Oh, dear, Bodach don't be taken in by the attitude to Churchill in Scotland after the war, which was of course positive because of his leadership. Dundee hated him as well.
He was MP for Dundee for 14 years 1908 - 1922. Rarely visited and stayed in a local hotel when he did. Sent in the Black Watch to control demonstrations in the city. Eventually he lost his seat to the only Temperance MP ever, Edwin Scrymgeour. As he left Dundee after losing he said “I will see the grass grow green over the industrial wasteland of Dundee.” A real charmer.

Sorry, I've gone off topic again.