Could you imagine Mrs Thatcher breaking the law?

I think she was more than happy with European co-operation without too much bureaucracy which, I believe, many voters may have wanted, but the 2016 referendum gave no such options.

We'll never know, but I think Mrs T would have forced amendments to the Maastricht Treaty and then signed it. Who knows?

Lord Norman Lamont (that well known leftie remoaner) said: "I think the government will have to think again. I don't think this will get through the Lords, in its present form... It is impossible to defend. They'll have to think again."

Margaret Thatcher did say she could never have signed the Maastricht Treaty.
Gordon Brown was reluctant to sign the Lisbon Treaty. He did not sign it at the ceremony and left it up to David Miliband to sign, signing it later without ceremony.
Winston Churchill was in favour of a United Europe.

Callistemon

MayBee70

We live in a democracy not a dictatorship (yet). Why do we not have a say in what is happening to the country we live in. Or should we only be allowed to do so once every five years when there’s an election?

Well, occasionally we have a referendum too.

Yes must have meant " do what you like".

Mrs T wouldn't have agreed to a referendum either.

sparklingsilver28

I do honestly wonder why folks who have an issue with English history choose to live here. Winston Churchill was an imperfect human, and, no doubt like the rest of us, made mistakes. As a wartime leader, however, for many people he is and always will be an inspirational leader and a hero. Furthermore, and as such, had he been leading this country through the epidemic emergency, there is no doubt in my mind, you could not have a better man for the job.

Like her or loath her Mrs Thatcher and Brexit, Britain would not have been in the EU since it was John Major who signed Maastricht that she refused to do. She believed in Britain and understood what loyalty to country meant. Not the “Johnny Come Lately” brigade who think that a piddling contribution entitles them to re-write English/British history.

I don't really understand your post. Mrs Thatcher was in favour of the EU.

Who's rewriting English history?

Why should somebody choose to live elsewhere just because they don't think Churchill was a hero? That doesn't make sense.

MayBee70

We live in a democracy not a dictatorship (yet). Why do we not have a say in what is happening to the country we live in. Or should we only be allowed to do so once every five years when there’s an election?

Well, occasionally we have a referendum too.

Yes must have meant " do what you like".

This

We live in a democracy not a dictatorship (yet). Why do we not have a say in what is happening to the country we live in. Or should we only be allowed to do so once every five years when there’s an election?

The next 4 weeks are going to be pretty febrile. We are ALL just spectators watching from the sidelines. Nothing we can do but watch it play out as it will.

Mess there too, in my post
Excess been

We would have known exactly what we were supposed to be doing re COVID with Mrs T as well.
There would have been no been devolution. No mixed messages. We would have been told!
What a mess we are in.

Johnson has become a person of whom I can no longer listen without total total disbelief and cynicism. Agreed. I wouldn't believe him if he stood up and told us all it was September. Once a liar, always a liar. After you have lied to your partner, children, employer, the anonymous electorate are easy.

There was an interesting post on FB this morning:

If I was Barnier, I would promise GB everything they want, free trade, easy access, full membership rights without responsibilities, then on 31st December, I would renege on it..
I wonder what all those of you who are unbelievably, able to somehow excuse this disgraceful and frankly disgusting disregard for international law would feel about that?

It is very sinister. You don'y have to be a conspiracy theorist to see that this country has for the last five years been steered in the wrong direction by malignant forces - foreign powers, billionaires and tax exiles who look forward to the opportunities for the vultures of disaster capitalism, which would be the inevitable result of a no deal brexit.

Extract from an article in The Guardian:
'It is clear that Johnson and his most important confreres, Dominic Cummings and Michael Gove, never really saw this as anything other than a clever dodge, a tactical retreat. On his blog in March 2019, when May was in power, Cummings addressed “dear Vote Leave activists”: “don’t worry about the so-called ‘permanent’ commitments this historically abysmal Cabinet are trying to make on our behalf. They are not ‘permanent’ and a serious government — one not cowed by officials and their bullshit ‘legal advice’ with which they have herded ministers like sheep — will dispense with these commitments.”'
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/sep/10/boris-johnson-oven-ready-brexit-cummings-withdrawal-agreement
Makes you ask just who is running the country and what are their objectives??

I do honestly wonder why folks who have an issue with English history choose to live here. Winston Churchill was an imperfect human, and, no doubt like the rest of us, made mistakes. As a wartime leader, however, for many people he is and always will be an inspirational leader and a hero. Furthermore, and as such, had he been leading this country through the epidemic emergency, there is no doubt in my mind, you could not have a better man for the job.

Like her or loath her Mrs Thatcher and Brexit, Britain would not have been in the EU since it was John Major who signed Maastricht that she refused to do. She believed in Britain and understood what loyalty to country meant. Not the “Johnny Come Lately” brigade who think that a piddling contribution entitles them to re-write English/British history.

haporth ?flowers are always welcome, but why are you sending them to me?
I can well imagine Mrs T breaking International Law if she thought it went against the UK’s interests.

Jaylucy ? yes, it would have def been ‘you will’ from MT
And she would have had her stern face on for the tv interviews.Johnson never wants to offend the public ( we need offending at the moment!)

Sorry I keep doing this but there's some really good stuff out there.

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/09/10/no-10-must-stand-firm-flouting-international-law-face-eu-expansionism/

trisher I absolutely agree with you here. Would the police really have behaved in such a manner without instruction or at least an OK?

Not to mention the Poll Tax. A friend's boyfriend at the time had t-shirts printed that said 'Laugh? I nearly paid my Poll Tax!' Wish I still had mine.

And saying 'There's no such thing as Society.' It's not breaking the law, obviously, but then again it's not the sort of statement that exactly encourages a healthily law-abiding, er, society, is it? Thanks for excellent input.

From brexiter Michael Howard.

There's also this

globalvisionuk.com/reasserting-our-sovereignty-a-practical-necessity/

Actually I think Mrs Thatcher did encourage others to break the law. Think of the miners' strike and Orgreave. Did the police there behave independently or did instructions come to them from those in authority?

But in view of Aritcle 38 is the law actually being broken? I've never trusted BJ and the fact that he's allowed to hold office considering the Guppy horror is beyond all belief.

Sir Bill Cash would imho be a marvelous PM. Many would say too old for the job but I think even one or two years of decency at No. 10 would go a long way to airing out the stench.

conservativewoman.co.uk/tcws-brexit-watch-johnson-can-indeed-rip-up-the-withdrawal-agreement/

'Private Eye' used to have a regular page on E.U. truths (or lack thereof.) It was mind-boggling, terrifying, and stupendously well-researched journalism. Anyone who ever read it can't help but wonder just how honest anything to come out of an E.U. mouth is.

Of course one group's lies don't justify anyone else's lies.
I just think 38 means we're not actually breaking the law or being dishonest. Actually I think it's the other way round.

Jaberwok and lemongrove

Though it may be a bit unfair on snakes to compare them to Heath!

No, I cannot imagine Mrs Thatcher breaking the law, nor really any of her predecessors, whether Conservative or Labour.

The EU aren't browbeating anyone,They cant give the UK a better deal them they had and not charge the same as before. Everybody else would want that deal too and the whole system would collapse The NI issue is massive...for the people who live there NOT for Tories though or BREXITEERS.Of course Brexiteers cant see the wood for the trees and the tree in this case is Bojo who never wanted a deal in the frst place ,hence dragging his heels. IF the WM government breaks international law they wont just be the laughing stock they are now they'll be total pariahs.NOBODY in their right minds will trade anything with them at ANY rate ,and the tarrifs will cripple us even if WM conforms to the rule of law

All for what? Control of everything you already had control over? It wasn't the EU that screwed up the economy IT was WM .It was WM who had control over borders and didn't use it ,WM who spent recklessy and borrowed TRILLIONS instead of bring down the debt as they "promised" AND IMPOSED AUSTERITY on the people who didn't cause the crash while their rich pals doubled their wealth. WM who now have the second largest UNelected assembly outside of China ..only the House of "lords" costs a great deal more and WM who are lying,cheating and immoral clowns.

WM aren't just untrustworthy JABERWOK they're CRIMINAL

Maybee points out-

"And also, Mrs Thatcher was a scientist and countries that have had people in power with a scientific background seem to have fared much better."

It is also true that countries which have done better tend to have women in charge.